3-betting fisticuffs

jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2 in General Concepts
Mildy drunk post, good session but finally someone got tired of the button opens. We had some fun.


V is competent $1/3, $2/5 reg. I don't play $2/5 anymore, but we have before in the past. I've seen him bounce around. I wouldn't consider him "good", but neither am I. I just think he knows what's what in terms of basic strategy.


1st hand. 2 Limps hero opens :KC: :JD: to $17 on the BU. V is always in SB. 3-bets to $45. V $445 effect. Hero covers. Folds to hero. Hero....folds. First time he's 3 bet me. I don't love calling off suit Broadways anymore vs low-stakes 3-bets. Often dominated. Take my $17.


2nd hand 1 limp hero :9S: :8S: opens to $15. V 3-bets to $50. V $330~ effective. Hero tanks for a bit and talks to V. Table is fun and hero is talking and drinking. I say "come on man it's like...your pricing me out. Like, you know I'm getting sick of these 3-bets." He just laughs. Hero shows hand and folds. Can't play 3 SPR with :9S: :8S: . V shows :KC: :KS: : and says "It's the exact right price". Cool.


3rd hand. V? opens to $8 in MP. He opens crap to see a cheap flop. Hero with :AD: :QS: on BU 3-bets to $30. V-1 4-bets to $105. (V was about $400 at this point). I've had enough. Hero "you wanna have some fun? Let's party bro. I only got a pair." Ships. V tanks. Asks to see one. I let him choose. He chooses A. He laughs and open folds KQ. I'm here for a good time, not a long time. Awful idea to let people see cards, but whenever anyone tanks I always feel good, so I probably give off the "image" that I got it. Even with position, I think flatting the 3-bet here is a mistake. I think going for a 4-bet is ideal, and not sure what sizing to choose. I sat for a bit actually thinking about this, $250 with the intent of never folding? Seems dumb. Maximize FE? Blockers? A ship is an overplay, but then again, this man isn't afraid to fight me on my BU action. I think AQ as a bluff with blockers fits the bill. Against a regular opponent I wouldn't dare, but seemed good man.


4th hand. (V tops off to $400). Open to $15 from MP (prob good hand). Hero flats with :AC: :3C: (V had like $300~, this is quazi meh from me but I like to give action. I mix this with 3-bets and a few folds.) V-1 3-bet's to $75. V-? tanks and folds. Hero? I'm capped at one of my medium hands most likely, even though I would contemplate a AA flat vs this V who prob opens strong, V-1 likely knows this. Prob is when V? folds, I think he has an A. This makes my hand worse. Maybe mid PP? I don't wanna fold. I know I should fold. I've forked my range. He's uncapped. This is a losing position. The fold button disappears. I call.



Flop :7C: :3D: :2D: . He C-bet's $110. Man. I block his over bricks. What can I even rep here? I hate just C/c myself to death. Hes got about $230 left. My raise's have been pretty strong tonight, my opens weak. I rip it. He tanks and talks. I say nothing. Mistake. I am nervous, and he knows my silence is my death warrant. He calls with 99. Hero ace on the river. What a game.



V reloaded and taken down a big pot. V? back to his $8 open (come on man). Hero with :TC: :8C: 3-bets to $30. V flats (675~). V? flats.


Pot $95~
Flop :9C: :3C: : D: :3D: . Checks to hero. Hero C-bets $30. V-1 raises to $100. WHEN IS IT GONNA GET OLD WITH THE SMALL C-BETS GETTING RAISED. Man. Fold, ha just kidding I'm an asshole and I call (V has $450~)


Pot $295
Turn: :8H: . V-1 goes well into the tank. Finally plops the all-in. oasidfjasidfjasio. Winners heroine. I feel I'm beat, but I feel the win coming. I call. Call off $310 more. Yuh. QQ > :TC: :8C: Ship that undeserved A3 win. Rack it up and go home, consider the fact that you won at a all a poker gift.


Overall, this was the most exciting game I've played in a while. V-1 was the only one fighting back with 3 and 4-bets. There were others 3-bet's in there too but I can't remember, mainly either he folded or I did. The early posts were from early on in the session. Overall, these hands were all in about a 2-3 hour span, so a lot of battling going on. Good stuff. Are there errors in here? I'm sure. But shame on you who only call and 3-bet without the goods. Ya action, boo folds.

Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Calling $15 pre then $75 (60 more) squeeze vs a $400 stack is pretty poor play or "too rich to fold."

    V cbets $110 now he has put in about half his stack and you rip it with about 20-25% equity.

    Other hands are ok this one bugged me the most.

    Last hand is pretty bad turn call as well. I think they pegged you as a station and went for max value.

    You say hes not any good and neither are you, if your aware of your weakness why not have discipline and take their money. I think you have the knowledge, especially given all the advice from you and others on this forum that you should not be playing bingo with these players. Your exploiting them but you get mixed up with "gambling" instead of focusing on the goal at hand and thats crushing their souls.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭✭
    First of all, I loved reading this post. I could actually imagine myself at the table watching this battle between the two of you!!

    Second, apropos @Austin's comment, I say this about poker: You can either play to win or play to have fun. Sometimes, when you win you have fun, and, sometimes, when you have fun you win. But, you can only be there with one goal in mind.

    Since your goal for that session was to have fun (is that your primary poker goal?), then it seems like it was a "win" for you. And thanks for sharing!
  • NYCRyNYCRy Red Chipper Posts: 312 ✭✭✭
    I think many people find themselves in many different life situations and develop different relationships/goals for the game of poker.

    A long time grinder plays to win. But the game is no longer fun to him. He does it because he has to.

    A wealthy hedge fund manager plays because he likes the thrill of competition, the game is fun, and the money doesn't matter.

    True gamblers get almost as much satisfaction from the high of losing as the high of winning.

    A part time player puts in 15hrs/week of play and 10hrs of study, plays to win and has fun along the way. But they sometimes like to loosen up and have a few drinks and mix it up with the Friday night crowd, even if every play is not +EV.

    All of these are fine. No need for black/white classifications IMO

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would assume most members are there to win and the fun part of it, at least for me, comes from analyzing ranges and making good reads whether it results in folds or hero calls. I enjoy making +EV decisions on each street and understanding the why behind them. The grinders that lose interest are those that don't study to improve or move up stakes and challenge themselves.
  • NYCRyNYCRy Red Chipper Posts: 312 ✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    The grinders that lose interest are those that don't study to improve or move up stakes and challenge themselves.

    I would disagree with this. I've ready plenty on this subject by now and the problem is that poker isn't like some job where you can work your way up the corporate ladder and the more effort you put in, the higher your winrate is and the more money you make. Edge gets reeeaaalllll thin once you make it to 5/10. How many pros do you think are able to sustain a $50+/hr winrate in games with 7 or 8 other pros? 5/10 doesn't even go that often in most casinos now. You see so many pros now either getting out of poker completely or starting to generate other income streams because they realize that even if they stayed razor sharp, studied appropriately, etc...it wouldn't necessarily make them any more money. They could play higher but risk going broke in a downswing. I would think as a pro you would need $75/hr minimum if poker is your only income in order to lead a well balanced, happy life. And that just seems really hard to do considering current and likely future conditions. Part timers FTW!
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ryan A wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    The grinders that lose interest are those that don't study to improve or move up stakes and challenge themselves.

    I would disagree with this. I've ready plenty on this subject by now and the problem is that poker isn't like some job where you can work your way up the corporate ladder and the more effort you put in, the higher your winrate is and the more money you make. Edge gets reeeaaalllll thin once you make it to 5/10. How many pros do you think are able to sustain a $50+/hr winrate in games with 7 or 8 other pros? 5/10 doesn't even go that often in most casinos now. You see so many pros now either getting out of poker completely or starting to generate other income streams because they realize that even if they stayed razor sharp, studied appropriately, etc...it wouldn't necessarily make them any more money. They could play higher but risk going broke in a downswing. I would think as a pro you would need $75/hr minimum if poker is your only income in order to lead a well balanced, happy life. And that just seems really hard to do considering current and likely future conditions. Part timers FTW!

    $275 a day is 100k a year. @ $50/hr playing 40 hours a week you pass 100k. Guess it depends on the life you want to live. Person could do this at 2\5.

    The ones that are truly dedicated can crush a lot of 5\10 or 5\5 deep stack games. I don't think the competition is that great and edge that thin. Although some of the fun comes out of the game at the higher stakes.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Ha, yeah I mean I definitely don't go there to lose, and hand #4 and #5 are things I wouldn't dare do if I wasn't already having a really good night. Did I burn up like $550 on that hand for no good reason? Mmmmm well....if I woulda hit my club it's a different tune, but it sure as hell wasn't good. Not as bad as overshipping the A3 hand IMO. But, like @Ryan A said, I get to only play 1-2 times a week, sometimes none, so going there, having some beers, playing some cards, and ideally winning some money is what the game is about for me. If I ever sit at a table with 3-4 kids with headphones in grinding, I'm switching tables or I'm trying to make life miserable for them via play style. A good environment and solid play is what I'm all about these days. No need for every play to be maximized +EV, I really have been starting to see and believe the whole "give action get action" thing people talk about is real.


    As for it's hard to make a "living" playing poker....I mean I think being able to smash $2/5 games, you gotta have softer games running. This means the after work crowd, and the weekend crowd. If you have the tolerance to put in hours from say 4 PM- 10 PM M-F, then Saturday + Sunday 12 PM- 12 AM, as your full time job, thats a solid 40+ hours a week where the games will be juicy. I think you can erk out between soft $1-3 and $2/5 games $35-$75 an hour win-rate there. That's around 100k a year (not bad and very doable). But 40 hours a week playing your poker A game is brutal. I think 15-35 hours is a lot more reasonable on the mind and the body. If that's the case, then 50k a year for a part time job. Mmmm. That's why I really like what @Ryan A said, about a nice 1-3 times a week @ for me @ $1/3 a $20-$35 an hour win rate (very possible). It's a nice part time job, it's fun, pays for some other fun hobbies, nice little 5-10k a year hobby! Ayeo.
  • porterporter Red Chipper Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    Ryan A wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    The grinders that lose interest are those that don't study to improve or move up stakes and challenge themselves.

    I would disagree with this. I've ready plenty on this subject by now and the problem is that poker isn't like some job where you can work your way up the corporate ladder and the more effort you put in, the higher your winrate is and the more money you make. Edge gets reeeaaalllll thin once you make it to 5/10. How many pros do you think are able to sustain a $50+/hr winrate in games with 7 or 8 other pros? 5/10 doesn't even go that often in most casinos now. You see so many pros now either getting out of poker completely or starting to generate other income streams because they realize that even if they stayed razor sharp, studied appropriately, etc...it wouldn't necessarily make them any more money. They could play higher but risk going broke in a downswing. I would think as a pro you would need $75/hr minimum if poker is your only income in order to lead a well balanced, happy life. And that just seems really hard to do considering current and likely future conditions. Part timers FTW!

    Poker is merit-based. You get out what you put in. More work, more earn. That's exactly why some pros are giving up. They got spoiled by free money during the boom. But they can't hack it now that the market is more competitive (but still soft).

    5/10 is nowhere neeeaaarrr as tough as you make it sound in any of the major markets, based on my experience (and my peers'). It certainly isn't a bunch of pros sitting around waiting for a whale. And most of the 5/10 pros themselves aren't tough either (see, for example, the vlogs).

    I agree that part-time is best for most people. With no PTO, health insurance, or 401K, one would need the benefits of professional poker to strongly outweigh the costs. But that's no different now than it was ten years ago.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭✭
    I mean, people literally go to the casino...knowing that they are going to lose. Like, it's not a mystery that the house always wins. But the house, for many games, promises to only keep a small edge, so on any given day, you can get lucky and "take" the house. Poker, however, is only about the players at your table and yourself. If people feel that they are playing against vastly superior competition...well..you wouldn't see blackjack played if the house showed "60:40". This is is why I think the house also offers promos, it gets casual players in the door. I doubt almost any causal "reg" thinks about rake, or how much it decimates win-rate. Hell, only one time did I actually do poor math and be like "oh my God. I'd be doing SO much better if there wasn't rake!" My locals casino often times does 2 promos, one is basically a "give-back" of rake to the grinders, if you get X amount of hours you get $200+ back a week, and then HH specials on Friday, Saturday and Sunday for the casual player. It's a nice mix.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file