Folding an overpair?

Peter vPeter v Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
This is the first hand I'm posting here, so enjoy!
A little bit of backstory: One of my biggest (identified) leaks is that I tend to call off too many big pots with the second best hand. I vowed to do this less often and thus folded my overpair in the following situation. The game was NL5 Zoom, so I had little to no information about my opponent. Do you agree with my decision to fold?

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 211.4 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 26)
SB: 141.4 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 6)
BB: 146.6 BB (VPIP: 16.13, PFR: 9.68, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
UTG: 117.6 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 42.86, 3Bet Preflop: 66.67, Hands: 7)
UTG+1: 124.2 BB
MP: 102.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (MP+1): 230.2 BB
MP+2: 116 BB (VPIP: 14.87, PFR: 11.34, 3Bet Preflop: 1.33, Hands: 199)
CO: 64.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has :Qd:Qh

fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 4.4 BB, fold, fold, BTN raises to 16.4 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 51.6 BB, BTN calls 35.2 BB

Flop: (105.6 BB, 2 players) :6h:7c:Td
Hero bets 34.4 BB, BTN raises to 159.8 BB and is all-in, fold

[spoil]BTN wins 167.2 BB


  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you made a good fold here. He's not jamming A10s or JJ here let a lone 3 betting and calling a large 4 bet here.

    I think your 4 bet could be a leak and needs to be a bit more polarized. I would keep QQ in your 3 bet call range as AA and KK are flatting here a ton IP and just letting you barrel off on low boards. You narrow your range to QQ+ AK here so if they hold AA there is no need to 5 bet 200bb deep.

    Full ring a lot of players are not even 3 betting QQ vs EP raise. I would work on constructing 4 bet ramges and 3 bet calling ranges.
  • Danny MDanny M Red Chipper Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    Good disciplined fold... hard to call unless you've seen villain bluff here with AK in 4b pot.. I mean you don't beat any value raises...

    when villain almost 4x's your raise he's playing his hand face up (or giving himself a terrible price on 3b bluffs) as are you with your over 3x 4bet sizing... so if villain is thinking about ranges at all he has to put you on QQ+

    4bet size could be smaller... the 4b is such a strong move you can do 2.2-2.7x and risk less money while accomplishing the samething on your 4b bluffs or when you're behind...

    I'm not familiar with the current playstyle at fast 5nl but I feel like @Austin is correct when he says players are not 3betting light enough to put QQ in the 4b value range but it's important that you to figure out individual opponents' ranges if TT+ AQs+ AKo is in a villain's 3b 5b stack off range then QQ becomes a 4b stack off for sure... if it's KK+ AK then it's a little gross 16 combos of AK you beat 52% of the time and 12 of KK+ you beat 20% of the time giving you about 30% equity vs villain's overall range.. . definitely a mistake to stack off 200bb with QQ preflop as a default without info villain is 5betting hands like TT or AQ though imo
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not disagreeing with @Austin or @Danny M. I do have a question though:

    Say that V is trapping with AA or KK. Would V really raise the flop? Wouldn't V want Hero to keep barreling?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not disagreeing with @Austin or @Danny M. I do have a question though:

    Say that V is trapping with AA or KK. Would V really raise the flop? Wouldn't V want Hero to keep barreling?

    Btn has pot size bet left and due to the texture if he thinks hero has JJ-KK, then there are several cards that may slow down the action.

    If a 8,9, T,comes it makes trips or 4 liner to a straight. None are really relavent, but similar reason why you wanted to shove KK preflop in the other thread, they want life to be easy so they just shove all in and not worry about the rest. If they know hero is folding QQ then its better to flat call the flop. Personally im flatting but this is the micros so players are not super advanced.

    Lets look at flatting from villain.

    Flop (105bb) 67T
    H bets 35bb
    V (160bb) calls
    Turn (175bb) 67T8
    Check x2
    River (175bb) 67T82
    H checks
    V all in 125bb
    H ??

    Now you really start to ask yourself did he call a 4 bet with AK? Call a small cbet on the flop? Decide to bluff on a 4 liner on the river? Ranges get much wider and hero becomes more sticky. Other way is hero keeps betting and v keeps calling with AA-KK.

    Now roll reversal if hero had AA and flatted preflop he can raise the flop putting JJ-KK in a tough spot. Would hero raise his sets? Even donk betting AA on 67T is pretty good. Puts JJ+ in a tough spot where they can't just down bet the flop.

    Point is you want to keep preflop ranges wide and get more value postflop.

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