Tough Pre-flop Spot with Jacks

talonjohntalonjohn Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
So apparently this is too much preflop action for ICMizer to handle, so no help there. It was a tough spot in game, just had to go with my gut ...

No Limit Hold'em Tournament T15,000/T30,000
Buy-in: $10,000 GTD - Hyper Turbo Mega Stack
Winning Poker Network
7 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - Hero (T451,240)
UTG+1 - UTG+1 (T140,526)
MP - MP (T90,210)
CO - CO (T463,548)
BTN - BTN (T344,752)
SB - SB (T372,753)
BB - BB (T373,410)

Preflop: (T66,000, 7 players) Hero is UTG with Js Jc
Hero raises to T60,040,
1 fold,
MP raises to T87,210 (all-in),
1 fold,
BTN raises to T341,752 (all-in),
SB raises to T369,753 (all-in),

Total Pot: T881,754

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I think I need 25.8% equity to call (309,713/1,198,468)

BTW, its my first post on the forums - don't flame me too bad.

I'll post results after some discussion

Comments

  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm folding here. No difference in our stack by folding pre (13bb vs 15bb before the raise) and it is unlikely that we have the best hand now or that we will have the best hand at showdown. JJ isn't going to perform great against 3 shoves, even if we do somehow have the best of it at the moment.
  • talonjohntalonjohn Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Do you think the fact that we already min raised matters?
  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭✭
    talonjohn wrote: »
    Do you think the fact that we already min raised matters?

    2 to 2.5bb is considered the norm in tournies so I don't think it matters.
  • BagOfChipsBagOfChips Red Chipper Posts: 12 ✭✭
    Button is probably isolating with Ax, 22+. Probably a wide range there i would think?
    The SB on the other hand is probably sitting on a very strong hand. QQ+, AK.
    Thats my range analysis. Probably fold JJ and lose what equity i may or may not have to survive longer in the tournament. Sucks, but SB probably has us dominated; who wants to go 3way all in with jacks anyways.
  • talonjohntalonjohn Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    OK, here are results:

    Hero folds.

    Flop: 6s 9s Jh (T881,754, 3 players, 2 all-in - BTN: T0, SB: T28,001, MP: T0)

    Turn: 5c (T881,754, 3 players, 2 all-in - BTN: T0, SB: T28,001, MP: T0)

    River: 7h (T881,754, 3 players, 2 all-in - BTN: T0, SB: T28,001, MP: T0)

    Total Pot: T881,754
    BTN shows Ac Td (with High card A)
    SB shows As Qs (with High card A (kicker Q))
    MP shows 9h 9d (with Three Of Kind of 9s)

    SB wins T509,084 with High card A (kicker Q)
    MP wins T372,670 with Three Of Kind of 9s
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭✭
    Utg hero JJ min raise 2bb
    mP all in 3bb
    Btn all in 11.5bb
    Sb all in 12.5bb

    Whats the payout? 3 people all in and 1 almost for sure to get knocked out maybe 2 people get knocked out. Based on this I would fold and pick a better spot, but there won be many with everyone sitting 10-15bb.

    I think I may open jam this hand myself and pick up the 66k in blinds \ antes. People are already in push \ fold anyways so make them hero call with whatever they have. Also if you raise and get jammed on HU would have to call it off anyways.

    I think if SB and BB folded you would have to call it off cause BTN could easily be isolating the 3bb player whos all in. Once SB shoves as well i think you gotta fold. This may be one of those KK+ spots only. I wouldn't be result oriented about it. I think it a good discipline fold.
  • talonjohntalonjohn Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Thanks. I went on to win the tournament, but at the time this kinda felt like I left money on the table.
  • NYCRyNYCRy Red Chipper Posts: 292 ✭✭✭
    I've started playing more SNG/MTT's lately and have been experimenting with open jamming more with 15-20bb when in the past I would still raise. Still unsure how I feel about it. Usually I just do what Snapshove tells me though haha
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭✭
    Honest question: if the runout had included a spade or if the flop had an ace rather than a jack, would you be posting confirming your great fold -- or, had you called, lamenting your poor call pre-flop?

    It reads like you think that maybe you feel like you should have talked yourself into calling, and the runout "proved" you right. In truth, the results of the hand don't matter from a decision standpoint.
  • talonjohntalonjohn Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Honest answer: Before the fold decision, I thought about it for a while, using 60 seconds of my time bank. Then I "starred" it on my replayer (Poker Copilot) for later because I was honestly not sure. I knew the possibility of being dominated was there especially from SB, but I thought 10's and AKs AKo and possibly AQs could have also been in his range. So with all the chips in this pot I wanted to know what happens if we make this call with JJ one hundred times.

    The question boils down to one simply of SB's shoving range here. We're not ITM at the time, a he's shoving 12 BB's against 2, possibly 3 players.I had been pretty active for about 8 orbits of this table, but I don't think active enough to warrant zero respect from my EP raise.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭✭✭
    talonjohn wrote: »
    The question boils down to one simply of SB's shoving range here. We're not ITM at the time, a he's shoving 12 BB's against 2, possibly 3 players.I had been pretty active for about 8 orbits of this table, but I don't think active enough to warrant zero respect from my EP raise.

    @talonjohn
    welcome to the forums...

    in the future, it'd be helpful to know such things as:
    how many players are left (your post makes it sound like you're at the final table)
    where's the money bubble (if this were a $10K GTD tourney and 7 players are left, you'll get a much different answer than if you're playing 7-handed and are 1 off the bubble)
    buy-in amount (your post sort of makes it sound like you paid $10K to enter)
    blinds AND antes (I find it hard to believe that there are no antes at the 30k level)
    and
    any reads you have on your opponents, as well as what your image may be...

    in a vacuum, I like a fold here... as explained in other posts, you're gtd to move up at least one spot in the pay ladder... and you've got plenty of chips left after you fold to still bully the table.

    here's an intersting thought for you: if you were heads up with the SB and he shows you that he's got AQ... would you still want to call?
  • talonjohntalonjohn Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Yeah, because this was not ITM I think a +EV gamble with JJ vs. AQ is worth it here

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