Applying study to the felt?

SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 234 ✭✭
I am sure this has been asked, but I still not getting it. More so that when I not the aggressor. I seem to lose track of action and just go into reactive mode. I knowing failing to plan is planning to fail.
just want to to give example of a hand this is more about learning what i can do to plan hands better.

$.25/.50 nl home game. 9 handed
New player been very active and seems to like to be agressive with his small pocket pairs. loves to show his hands.
2 limpers
($145)V1 HJ opens $4. Same raise size as before
($75)Hero BTN :Qd :Jd calls( at this point before calling i did put him on a range say 22+ Any Broadway, 87s+), but will admit never gave thought what i was looking for with this hand. Like am I looking to be good as a pair or what?
1 limper calls
flop :9d :Jh :8d
limper checks
V1 $6
Hero calls
limper folds
turn :Qh
V1 $12
Hero $24 now figure my 2 pair good
river :Ks
Hero checks
With no thought to why he checked I just check.
he sees my hand and says"thought you had the T." Tables KK
Can someone break down this hand on what my street by street thought process should look like.
What can I do to improve my hand planing off table?

Comments

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭✭
    I'll start with some questions (not necessarily to generate specific outcomes):

    1) Did you consider raising pre-flop? Why should or shouldn't you?

    2) Did you consider raising on the flop? Why should or shouldn't you?

    3) Did you consider raising on the turn? Why should or shouldn't you?

    4) Did you consider raising on the river? Why should or shouldn't you?

    In sum, off the table, I would recommend thinking about what impact aggression has on your play, on your image, on your hand selection, and on your runouts.

    In the hand, you're clearly not folding at any point given V's bet-sizing. I think that you might not be fully understanding how much equity your hand has here, though, and what the impact of applying pressure to an opponent is.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 780 ✭✭✭
    First, and its a silly point (suggestion) but one that Johnathan Little makes so I'm going to make it. When you think of a hand, record a hand and or post a flop.....organize it from big card to small in your head. :Jh :9d :8d . It just makes it easier to think about hands.
    And I guess it means more to me then I thought because :9d :Jh :8d was pretty distracting to me (LOL).

    In addition you should always be thinking of what the pot size is, and how much his bet is. You may be doing this, but you did not post it, which is always my first thought when I'm posting a hand since it is so important to the thinking..

    Now for thinking at the table. Against an active player, you should be trying to describe him better. Not necessarily here (though that would be nice) but in your own head. Yes he is a new player, so you may have to go to some default reads, but he has been active raising a lot, and he shows hands, so you should have a better read.

    Its nice that you put him on a preflop range. But honestly, whats more important is how he plays the flop and turn (and yes if possible the river). Does he always Cbet. the flop. The the texture of the flop matter, or how many players have called when he cbets.

    Does he double barrel. When he checks the flop or the turn, is it with showdown values or is it giving up. If nothing changes does he double barrel bluff. If a threat card comes does he double barrel.

    Does he uselessly make pot size bets, 1/2 pot size bets (this goes back to thinking about the pot size). does he try to make blocking bets, or does he use suck bets (small bets to get you to raise). do big bets mean big hands and small bets mean smaller hands (or does he do it backwards)....Do big bets into weakness mean a bluff, but small bets into weakness mean value...or is bet size just his hand strength.

    This all seems pretty complicated, but if away from the table, you simply write out how you think your default "pretty active player" plays, don't worry about being wrong. And then watch for the exceptions when you see one, then you will be able to easily get a feel which makes planning the hand much easier.

    Now for this hand...honestly as moishetreats pointed out you have so much equity at every point that getting money in on the flop or turn can never be really bad. By the river its hard to see what he calls a big bet with that your still ahead.

    Pre flop, again what your plan with QJs is depends on your read of hims. If he is supper agro, and 3 barrel bluffs a lot, or bluff catches a lot, then your plan is to catch a Q or a jack for top p;air good kicker of 2nd pair good kicker, and hold on.

    If he seems to be a solid tag, or lag, you seen him make lay downs. Then your plan is to take him off his hand a some point. Again here reads help. Does he cbet all flops but checks turns. does he double barrell with small bets with mediocre hands. If this is the read then you plan to take the flop away by the turn, if he gives you the go ahead. Flop a little equity, and make his life miserable.

    Personally I see little point of 3 betting here with this hand...so calling with one of the above plans is my default.

    The flop...well huge equity....He fires 1/2 pot into 3 players on a very very wet board. this is not a set or two pair (by default read) probably not a straight. this is the type of board 3 way that AK or 33 gives up on...so he marked with a draw or one pair type of hand. (unless you have some other read). Against this you don't mind getting it in, and you don't mind him folding out his 30 to 50% equity...so I'm probably raising and getting it in if he re raises. This also balances your range since your always going to be raising two pair and set hands here you have to have at least some draws in your range.

    Again if he seems oblivious to boards and just likes raw aggression...then calling and let him barrel might be fine. If he the type to cbet here with the :Ad and shove any diamond on the turn type thing.


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭✭
    Can someone break down this hand on what my street by street thought process should look like.
    Do it first ! That's how you improve. You have to do your homework! Use Flopzilla or Equilab and come back at us with ranges and assumption.

  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 234 ✭✭
    @red I was asking for is help with my thought process. I just put this hand as example of how when put to the test I loose track in hand. When I hit 2 pair on turn I was sure now he just had over pair. That why I made min raise, but guess I didn't have solid plan for the run-out on the river. Like i said got deer in head light look when king came off and couldn't snap back into the moment.
    after hand was over it made sense that he checked river fearing the Ten. win or loose a shove on river probably gets through 40% which is good enough. Who knows I seen two really bad hero calls work out for him later.

    @Eazzy
    I like your advice to think about him and how to exploit. which i am going to work on. That is where I need to start at beginning again. Will admit my study process wrong just jumped from book to book, video to video for the answers. I need to come up with a system to simulate the players and actions they take to get my head right. Just to explain the players in this home game are typical rec gamblers. besides me and 2 others none of them will step in a casino to play poker. They love the cheap price of this game. yet will donk off $200. For most part they not above level 1 players. The new guy has played few home games got brought with by another new guy. They dont even know most of the rules of the game. You would crush everyone of us at this game. I am trying to get better. I feel people and bet reading skills are good, but looking to do what Splitsuit and Grisped have talked about how good poker players have plan for their hands, understand what to expect their hand on different flops also to be ready for good or bad run-outs. like you said about hand reading, putting these guys on good ranges are hard.

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