Bad session...looking for feedback

TonyTwoCheeksTonyTwoCheeks Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
I lost two buy-ins playing $1-$3 @ Beau Rivage, Biloxi, MS. Three hands of note. Looking for feedback.

1st hand
Hero stack: $315
UTG+1 stack: $166 UTG+1 is unknown and has only been at the table for 4-5 hands.
*** PRE-FLOP ***
UTG+1: limps $3 (typical open at this game is $15-$20)
UTG+2: limps $3
Cut-off (Hero): raises $18 with [As Jc]
Small Blind: calls $17
Big Blind: folds
UTG+1: calls $15
UTG+2: folds
Pot Size: $60
*** FLOP *** [Ah 3d 4h]
UTG+1: raises all-in $148
Hero: Unlike a previous flop shove discussion with QQ, I have no hand history. Also only being in for $18, I fold.

2nd hand
Hero stack: $293
BB stack: $180 BB is action player with raises, raise-folds, button straddles and every other play you can think of.
*** PRE-FLOP ***
UTG+1: limps $3
UTG+2: limps $3
Hi-Jack (Hero): raises $18 with [Ac 7c]
Small Blind: folds
Big Blind: calls $15
UTG+1: calls $15
UTG+2: folds
Pot Size: $58
*** FLOP *** [9h 8d 6c]
BB bets $10
UTG+1 folds
Hero: calls $10
Pot Size: $78
*** TURN *** [9h 8d 6c Kc]
BB checks
Hero bets $60 (I was trying to take control of hand with my increased equity. Figured I had 17 outs. Is this correct play?)
BB raises all-in $152
Hero calls $92
BB shows [5h 7h]
*** RIVER *** [9h 8d 6c Kc 2s]


3rd hand
Hero stack: $405 (I added another $300)
UTG+2 stack: $480 BB is 2nd action player sitting right next to 1st action player They are not friends but same betting pattern. Player has cold open$40 UTG with 87s.
*** PRE-FLOP ***
UTG+2: limps $3
HJ limps $3
CO limps $3
BN (Hero) limps $3 with [Ac 5h]
Small Blind completes
Big Blind: checks
Pot Size: $18
*** FLOP *** [Ad 7c 5c]
UTG+2 bets $15
HJ folds
CO folds
Hero raises $60
SB folds
BB folds
UTG+2 calls $45
Pot Size: $138
*** TURN *** [Ad 7c 5c 2s]
UTG+2 checks
Hero bets $80
UTG+2 raises all-in $417
Hero calls $262 (whether right or wrong I called too quickly and didn't think it through)
BB shows [7d 7h]
*** RIVER *** [Ad 7c 5c 2s 3h]


So was this run bad or were my mistakes that bad? All other hands whether small wins or small losses were quite mundane.

Comments

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭✭
    Here are some thoughts to get the conversation started.

    First of all, great post -- I'm sure that you'll get wonderful feedback.

    Hand 1:
    "Also only being in for $18, I fold."
    Honestly, this is irrelevant. You might have used this as a way to justify getting out of thinking through a tough spot. The question isn't how much you have put in already but rather what is in the pot now relative to the bet size and relative to ranges. If you eliminate this thinking, then what do you think that you would do and why?

    Hand 2:
    I have two contradictory thoughts:
    -When V donk bets, that's often a sign of a lesser hand trying to get next cards for cheap. It's usually a tell and a good reason to raise.
    -In this case, there's another factor to consider. "BB is action player with raises, raise-folds, button straddles and every other play you can think of." Then why on earth is betting such a small amount? That rings alarm bells. In addition, one of the reasons to raise is to ensure that you get paid off if you miss your hand (note: that's not one of the two most important reasons to raise, but it is an important factor). With this BB, however, it seems like he'll give action if/when you hit a hand. Put these two factors together -- a shockingly small bet from an action player and the fact that he's likely to pay you of if you hit), and I'd be tempted to call the flop, as you did. That being said, why bet the turn against this guy? You're almost assuredly going to face an all-in that you have to call...?

    Hand 3:
    Fold pre-flop -- without a second thought.


    I see the overarching theme here being an awareness of the opponent type that you're playing but not necessarily having a plan or counter to beat them.
  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    I just played a long session of high variance 1/3 yesterday, stacks were changing hands and there were around 15k total on the table, and at one point I was down 2k, which was 4 BIs. Let me tell you what I kept in mind when I ran bad while it's still fresh in my mind.

    1. You can't play scared money, you have to be able to call off for your stack when your opponents line make no sense.

    2. An extension to #1, you have to still be willing to bluff when the situation calls for it. I understand the feeling when you are stuck, you feel like everybody can see right through you and call your bluff, so you rather take the safe route and check behind. Remember it's never okay to give up EV, and whenever bluffing is better than checking, don't be afraid and go for it.

    3. Keep your preflop range nice and tight. I know it sucks when you fold for hours and lose the hand that you can finally play, and it also sucks when you feel like when you raise preflop you are just building the pot for someone else to take away. You should stick to your preflop game and never deviate from it. Open hands with a raise, put in the 3 bet when it's a good spot to squeeze.

    As for your 3 hands, your first hand might suffer from #1, unless you think V was never bluff shoving. Your third hand suffers from #3 Ace-rag is not a hand that you can limp behind with, raise or fold it.

    Poker is a mental game as much as it's a skill game, and remain disciplined no matter how good or bad you run is key for long term success. Your edge on the table comes in many forms, if you don't tilt while your opponents do, you have a huge advantage over them.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just played a long session of high variance 1/3 yesterday, stacks were changing hands and there were around 15k total on the table, and at one point I was down 2k, which was 4 BIs.

    Sounds familiar :-)

    There is a pattern I can see pretty clearly. Hero raises after 2 limps and goes 3-4 ways. Hero keeping his bet size the same while playing a 3 SpR pot each time. Hero is unclear why he bets just know he is suposed to raise, but not sure what the bet is trying to accomplish.

    Hand#1
    SPR is 2
    Player is gambling and less than 50bb stack
    Hero flopped tPgk
    What range is he donk betting? Would he donk shove 2 pair, sets? Or is a FD more likely?

    Hand#2
    Seems ok besides preflop. If you don't have any Fold equity, what is your reasoning for raising? If you flop TP you fold to a shove, if you flop a draw your chasing... Better off limping behind or raising to $25 or so where you have some FE

    Hand#3
    Little bit of a cooler post flop but preflop likely just fold unless its suited.

  • AkashicAkashic Red Chipper Posts: 54 ✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Sounds familiar :-)

    There is a pattern I can see pretty clearly. Hero raises after 2 limps and goes 3-4 ways. Hero keeping his bet size the same while playing a 3 SpR pot each time. Hero is unclear why he bets just know he is suposed to raise, but not sure what the bet is trying to accomplish.
    This is the biggest take away. When you play in these live games with limpers, they won't leave a pot with those smaller iso raises. You need to be willing to increase your preflop raise sizing. Instead of raising to $15 try $25+. Toy around with this number instead of keeping it static. Think about WHY raise $25 instead of $15.
  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    I just played a long session of high variance 1/3 yesterday, stacks were changing hands and there were around 15k total on the table, and at one point I was down 2k, which was 4 BIs.

    Sounds familiar :-)

    Hey man, no need to needle. Not every day you see 5000BBs on the table. You know what I mean. Sometimes you sit at a table the entire day with no action, all of the sudden couple drunks come to the table and stacks starts to move around. Before you know it everyone at the table have huge stacks in front of them. These are the juiciest games, and you will stay at the table no matter how tired you are, because you know even your worst C-game is profitable.

    You will have your biggest wins in these games, as well as biggest losses.

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    I just played a long session of high variance 1/3 yesterday, stacks were changing hands and there were around 15k total on the table, and at one point I was down 2k, which was 4 BIs.

    Sounds familiar :-)

    Hey man, no need to needle. Not every day you see 5000BBs on the table. You know what I mean. Sometimes you sit at a table the entire day with no action, all of the sudden couple drunks come to the table and stacks starts to move around. Before you know it everyone at the table have huge stacks in front of them. These are the juiciest games, and you will stay at the table no matter how tired you are, because you know even your worst C-game is profitable.

    You will have your biggest wins in these games, as well as biggest losses.

    I know man. I really think you can lower your variance and still keep at 12bb+ win rate. I think you may be bleeding money in some spots but making up for it in thin value bets.

    I know this cause im over 12bb win rate with a very consistent session win rate as well. I don't have huge winning sessions but rarely lose and usually cash half to 2 buyins each session.

    I encourage you to post a lot more hands. If your playing 80 hrs a week since May I would be posting 2 or 3 a day.

    Let's not Hi-jack this thread though. Ill stop needling.

    @TonyTwoCheeks
    Youtube split suit playing MW pots. I think i posted it in another thread. He talks about over limping or raising large.

    Johnathan little talks about it in his books as well. He will go 4-6x when he wants calls and 7-10x when he wants FE. I.e A7s, AJo, etc.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭✭
    I lost two buy-ins playing $1-$3 @ Beau Rivage, Biloxi, MS.

    Losing 2 buy-ins is totally normal. If you can't handle to lose 2-3 buy-in per losing session - or 10-20 in a row in a bad time - , then your bankroll is too small for the game and/or you're not mentally prepared to play (for) this money.

    Biloxi is a nice place. I played there once, I really like the view and the beach nearby. And the games were pretty good as well since end of afternoon (but during week days, there are only OMC)
    hand 1
    Opening 18$ ? It's rather small if you want to attack and punish limpers. Looks like a standard opening.
    Fold is arguable. But without info, I don't think TP3K is good enough of the time. Is Villain showing enough of the time hands we beat? I strongly doubt. "Don't pay them off" is surely the right play here.
    hand 2
    Issue by opening 18$ with A7s. It's too small and you're going to get called very often. If so, is there a point to raise and build the pot - do you have a strong range and/or skill advantage ? I'd rather either limp behind (and get prepared for a squeeze from BB) or open larger to get more FE.

    Little underbet on the flop is either a draw or a monster. Ok to call with our good odds with OESD, but we are also turning our hand face up. I prefer to raise and bully the player here.
    On the turn, I see no point by betting. Which worst hands call us ? Which better hand (under)bet flop and check turn? Also we create fake good odds to call when it's shoved on us as we create a big stach of dead money. You hanged yourself.
    hand 3
    Raising flop is a good way to build the pot... but who call you? Sets and 2P - and some TPWK is V is very sticky. You've almost the worst value hands when you raise, but keep yourself against a weaker wider range by calling. And you've position.
    Again, I think you hanged yourself as by raising flop and betting turn you narrow Villain's range to only hands which beat you (plus some 75s).
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Too many hands to give proper attention, 1 hand per post is usually better.
    Hero: Unlike a previous flop shove discussion with QQ, I have no hand history. Also only being in for $18, I fold.

    Not sure of that decision, but the reason for it is wrong.
    *** TURN *** [9h 8d 6c Kc]
    BB checks
    Hero bets $60 (I was trying to take control of hand with my increased equity. Figured I had 17 outs. Is this correct play?)

    Correct or not I can't say, but depending on the players it's certainly worth a try from time to time.
    *** PRE-FLOP ***
    UTG+2: limps $3
    HJ limps $3
    CO limps $3
    BN (Hero) limps $3 with [Ac 5h]

    I fold preflop, unless I have some particular reason to think I can steal from these particular players later in the hand. And I rarely think that against a herd of $1/3 limpers.

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    Hey man, no need to needle.

    Ha, and here I thought he was saying it has happened to him too :)

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