I need help.

elvis lelvis l Red Chipper Posts: 8 ✭✭
running ICMizer and showed my push to be around 11%, (9handed UTG 6 maybe BB). On chart it has A2s as EV+ but A10o as EV-. Then I come across another scenario where my push was around 17% (UTG+1, i forget BB) and it had A10 as EV+ but A2s as EV-......... so I went to Poker Cruncher... It shows A10o as having more EV than A2s (as I expected it would)no matter how many are in hand. This was on SNG coach. Is this a bug, or am I missing something??? Thank you for any help.

Best Answer


  • Michael RosataMichael Rosata Red Chipper Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    The Ev is going to depend on the range your playing against. Against the same range AT will be the same no matter what position your in. I'm guessing the ICMizer probably creates opponents range based on stack sizes and positions.

    When you are shoving All-in with A2 UTG +1 you have almost every player left to act and so the chance you'll face more players (more ranges to calculate) or simply tighter ranges (because they are facing a narrower range likely from UTG+1 shover).

    Going all-in later in position your perceived range would be wider to the players left to act. I've never used ICMizer, so the ranges of callers are probably set by you, but late position shove some of those ranges have already folded, or they may have raised pre-flop and so are getting better pot-odds an are more likely now to call your all-in than if they were left behind you.

    UTG+1 I'm thinking that better aces might be calling your All-in shove with A2 because of this dynamic and people will assume your range is tighter with an all-in from UTG+1. (I don't know how that is handled in ICMizer)

    I am just guessing as to the reason for your results, the only thing I am 100% sure about is that ICMizer is range and position dependent. So I don't think the values you got were wrong, just based on a scenario with lots of variables. Other programs that calculate EV you would have to import the ranges from ICMizer to get the same numbers back most likely.
  • elvis lelvis l Red Chipper Posts: 8 ✭✭
    I appreciate your answer. Thank you!
  • Michael RosataMichael Rosata Red Chipper Posts: 15 ✭✭
    np @elvis l , good question!

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