Keto Primer For Poker Players

RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
Here's an article that talks a little bit about ketosis and how it can benefit poker players.

It resides on my website at https://ryanthelionxyz.wordpress.com/blog

Enjoy!


Talk soon,
Ryan TheLion
«13

Comments

  • dave3096dave3096 Red Chipper Posts: 30 ✭✭
    Great article. I have followed a keto diet also and found that adding fasting greatly increased my mental focus at the poker table. I generally fast 18-24 hours, but noticed a profound increase in focus when fasting beyond 24 hours. I believe that fasting is natural and safe, although many people don't share that belief. A lot of people believe that fasting is too extreme, but we were built to fast and eating 3 carb-filled meals a day has only helped fuel an obese nation. There is a lot of research supporting both a keto diet and fasting as benificial to health and weight loss. Keep an open mind .
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    dave3096 wrote: »
    Great article. I have followed a keto diet also and found that adding fasting greatly increased my mental focus at the poker table. I generally fast 18-24 hours, but noticed a profound increase in focus when fasting beyond 24 hours. I believe that fasting is natural and safe, although many people don't share that belief. A lot of people believe that fasting is too extreme, but we were built to fast and eating 3 carb-filled meals a day has only helped fuel an obese nation. There is a lot of research supporting both a keto diet and fasting as benificial to health and weight loss. Keep an open mind .

    Thanks dave -

    We are in fact biologically intended to fast - and to NOT consume carbs on the level we do as a general population.

    The good thing about science is that it's not subjective. Sometimes belief or lack thereof does not change the facts.

    The evidence to me is compelling and overwhelming.

    I hope to bring more awareness to everyone with what I'll be publishing.

    Talk soon,
    RTL
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    What can you do immediately? Easy. Cut sugars, reduce carbs, and increase healthy fat consumption. Exercise. Get adequate rest. Drink water.
    I may be naive, but what's the difference with a normal healthy diet ?
    My coach / nutritionist says the same. And it's no ketosis diet or else :)
    This means no giant spikes in blood glucose levels
    I agree with the diagnostic : people eat too much (and too badly) at once. My coach/nutritionist advocates for small but regular intake of balanced food - 5 to 6 times a day - to avoid spikes (of anything) and give the body what it needs.
    But how fasting - a diet based on fat as fuel - could give you the necessary vitamins or proteins ?
  • dave3096dave3096 Red Chipper Posts: 30 ✭✭
    The keto diet is a healthy diet. Fat is not unhealthy. On a keto diet you eat meat, vegetables, fruits in moderation, nuts. Think about a dinner- steak, salad, broccoli. Perfectly keto and perfectly healthy. What we cut out of that dinner is the baked potato, bread and pepsi- all of which are loaded with carbs. Keto is not a low protein diet, just low carbs (and a moderate amount of protein). We are cutting out bad carbs like pasta, breads, cookies and processed foods. Are we getting necessary vitamins by eating cookies?

    Pretty much any intake of food will cause your insulin to rise. The idea behind keto and fasting is that we are keeping insulin levels low for as long as possible. When you eat fat as opposed to carbs, your insulin rise will not be as drastic, so you will not have excess insulin in your system (which leads to insulin resistance and weight gain). Keep in mind that blood sugar levels and insulin levels are not the same. All foods will cause an increase in insulin levels, but not all foods will cause your blood sugar levels to increase. So checking your blood sugar after meals is not an accurate indicator of insulin resistance.

    The point is that people fear the keto diet because they believe fat is unhealthy. Nothing could be further from the truth. The keto diet cuts out unhealthy carbs contained in processed foods and baked goods, for example. Carbohydrates are not essential to life, however, we need to ingest fatty acids and essential proteins because the body cannot make them. There are no essential carbohydrates, meaning they are not necessary to sustain life. Hope this helps.

  • Wiki_LeaksWiki_Leaks Red Chipper Posts: 564 ✭✭✭
    Nice primer. Below is a brief account of my keto experience. Im going to go back into keto for wsop, perhaps Mr Lion or others could clear some of these items up and set me on the straight and narrow.

    One item in your article that stood out to me was acheiving ketosis takes several weeks? I experimented with keto for about 5 weeks a couple months ago and found myself in “moderate” ketosis within 14 days according to keto test strips. (These may or may mot be reliable as they only test for acetoacetate.) I also ate relatively low carb/pretty healthy before starting keto, typically do a 12-18 hour itermittent fast almost daily, and i did what they call a “fat fast” for 48 hours to kick off the diet. I only used mct oil and magnesium as a supplement (no exogenous ketones.) i did not practice IF after starting keto.

    I didnt experince significant keto flu symptoms. From my research some of the keto flu symptoms can be mitigated through ample hydration, sea salt, and magnesium consumption, but the mct oil brings about some pretty undesireable side effects.

    While i felt good on keto, I didn't notice any significant increases in concentration/focus but i only was in moderate ketosis for approximately 5 weeks. Since this makes more sense with your timeline, perhaps using qualitative changes as a guage for depth of ketosis would be more useful than the test strips. although being a dara driven person i do enjoy having quantitative data to track and tweak the diet accordingly.

    I will be eating carbohydrates next week (you gotta eat some of your wedding cake.) but will be going back into ketosis immediately to attempt to achieve deep enough ketosis to matter for the wsop.
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    dave3096 wrote: »
    The keto diet is a healthy diet. Fat is not unhealthy. On a keto diet you eat meat, vegetables, fruits in moderation, nuts. Think about a dinner- steak, salad, broccoli. Perfectly keto and perfectly healthy. What we cut out of that dinner is the baked potato, bread and pepsi- all of which are loaded with carbs. Keto is not a low protein diet, just low carbs (and a moderate amount of protein). We are cutting out bad carbs like pasta, breads, cookies and processed foods. Are we getting necessary vitamins by eating cookies?

    Pretty much any intake of food will cause your insulin to rise. The idea behind keto and fasting is that we are keeping insulin levels low for as long as possible. When you eat fat as opposed to carbs, your insulin rise will not be as drastic, so you will not have excess insulin in your system (which leads to insulin resistance and weight gain). Keep in mind that blood sugar levels and insulin levels are not the same. All foods will cause an increase in insulin levels, but not all foods will cause your blood sugar levels to increase. So checking your blood sugar after meals is not an accurate indicator of insulin resistance.

    The point is that people fear the keto diet because they believe fat is unhealthy. Nothing could be further from the truth. The keto diet cuts out unhealthy carbs contained in processed foods and baked goods, for example. Carbohydrates are not essential to life, however, we need to ingest fatty acids and essential proteins because the body cannot make them. There are no essential carbohydrates, meaning they are not necessary to sustain life. Hope this helps.

    Very well put dave.
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    Wiki_Leaks wrote: »
    Nice primer. Below is a brief account of my keto experience. Im going to go back into keto for wsop, perhaps Mr Lion or others could clear some of these items up and set me on the straight and narrow.

    One item in your article that stood out to me was acheiving ketosis takes several weeks? I experimented with keto for about 5 weeks a couple months ago and found myself in “moderate” ketosis within 14 days according to keto test strips. (These may or may mot be reliable as they only test for acetoacetate.) I also ate relatively low carb/pretty healthy before starting keto, typically do a 12-18 hour itermittent fast almost daily, and i did what they call a “fat fast” for 48 hours to kick off the diet. I only used mct oil and magnesium as a supplement (no exogenous ketones.) i did not practice IF after starting keto.

    You have neglected the time aspect. The benefits are deep and lasting - you don't get access to them by simply dipping your toes in the water. You get a taste of what it is but without going further you can't have a sense of perspective.

    In the same manner that people don't even realize they are sick - we are all unaware of what we don't know. I'm trying to bring awareness.

    I can say I've continued to see benefits as time progresses.

    Wiki_Leaks wrote: »
    I didnt experince significant keto flu symptoms. From my research some of the keto flu symptoms can be mitigated through ample hydration, sea salt, and magnesium consumption, but the mct oil brings about some pretty undesireable side effects.

    While i felt good on keto, I didn't notice any significant increases in concentration/focus but i only was in moderate ketosis for approximately 5 weeks. Since this makes more sense with your timeline, perhaps using qualitative changes as a guage for depth of ketosis would be more useful than the test strips. although being a dara driven person i do enjoy having quantitative data to track and tweak the diet accordingly.

    I will be eating carbohydrates next week (you gotta eat some of your wedding cake.) but will be going back into ketosis immediately to attempt to achieve deep enough ketosis to matter for the wsop.

    I pretty much never get "keto flu" because I'm in and out of keto and low carb far more often than not.

    Talk soon,
    RTL
  • Wiki_LeaksWiki_Leaks Red Chipper Posts: 564 ✭✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    You have neglected the time aspect. The benefits are deep and lasting - you don't get access to them by simply dipping your toes in the water. You get a taste of what it is but without going further you can't have a sense of perspective.

    In the same manner that people don't even realize they are sick - we are all unaware of what we don't know. I'm trying to bring awareness.

    I can say I've continued to see benefits as time progresses.


    I suppose im incorrectly equating blood ketones levels to ketosis? If im understanding you correctly, youre saying the benefits of ketosis are not simply a function of blood ketone levels? This is confusing as the definition of ketosis seems to be ketones are present. Im obviously not am expert on metabolism but it makes sense your body would adapt to metabolizing ketones more efficiently the longer youre in ketosis.

    I notice many ketoers consuming dairy products. I was under the impression that dairy was highly inflammatory and if longevity and optimal health are priorities then dairy should be largely avoided (sans quality butter) if not consumed very sparingly.

    Since you have been in prolonged states of ketosis on the past, do you find you body readapts/ do you see the benefits reappear more quickly when you begin eating a ketogenic diet?

    And @dave3096 i was under the impression that keto was more than “just low carbs.” The other two macros must be closely monitored. while keto is not a low protein diet per say, protein should be moderated otherwise the body will metabolize excess protein into glucose.

  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Wiki_Leaks wrote: »
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    You have neglected the time aspect. The benefits are deep and lasting - you don't get access to them by simply dipping your toes in the water. You get a taste of what it is but without going further you can't have a sense of perspective.

    In the same manner that people don't even realize they are sick - we are all unaware of what we don't know. I'm trying to bring awareness.

    I can say I've continued to see benefits as time progresses.


    I suppose im incorrectly equating blood ketones levels to ketosis? If im understanding you correctly, youre saying the benefits of ketosis are not simply a function of blood ketone levels? This is confusing as the definition of ketosis seems to be ketones are present. Im obviously not am expert on metabolism but it makes sense your body would adapt to metabolizing ketones more efficiently the longer youre in ketosis.

    I suppose if you really want to break the science down there's no true way to measure ketosis. I believe blood tests betahydroxybuterate which is a by product of ketones breaking down. Actone measured via respiration is another way. Acetoacetate urine levels are the third.

    Wiki_Leaks wrote: »
    I notice many ketoers consuming dairy products. I was under the impression that dairy was highly inflammatory and if longevity and optimal health are priorities then dairy should be largely avoided (sans quality butter) if not consumed very sparingly.

    I have a different understanding.

    Wiki_Leaks wrote: »
    Since you have been in prolonged states of ketosis on the past, do you find you body readapts/ do you see the benefits reappear more quickly when you begin eating a ketogenic diet?

    Most certainly. For this reason the urine excretion test isn't accurate for people who have been in ketosis for some time. The reason is that ketones are energy and the body doesn't want to produce more than necessary. When you first enter ketosis the body is pumping them out because it's unsure of the requirements.
    Wiki_Leaks wrote: »
    And @dave3096 i was under the impression that keto was more than “just low carbs.” The other two macros must be closely monitored. while keto is not a low protein diet per say, protein should be moderated otherwise the body will metabolize excess protein into glucose.

    I believe there's still some debate on gluconeogenesis and exactly how much protein is required and exactly what is converted. We can agree it should be moderated unless someone can provide a compelling case for the counterpoint and I can't think of one.

    Talk soon,
    RTL
  • dave3096dave3096 Red Chipper Posts: 30 ✭✭
    In my last post I did mention moderate protein consumption. When we cut carbs, we must make up for the caloric difference through either protein or fats. The body can only process so much protein before gluconeogenesis, which is basically that the body makes glucose from protein. We avoid that by eating moderate amounts of protein. So if we cut carbs and keep protein at the correct level, we must eat more fat (which is not a bad thing).

    As far as heightened focus- I did not feel that until I incorporated longer fasts into my lifestyle. I felt no change in focus while on a keto diet without fasting. Although fasting seems drastic to some, it is really quite natural and very simple to do once you overcome the psychological "stress" of thinking you are hungry. After a few 18 hour fasts, then a couple of 24s, you will have no problem with hunger. The body doesn't get more hungry the longer you go without eating. So for the most part a 48 hour fast isn't more difficult than a 24. I thought sitting at the poker table after a 48 hour fast would be difficult, but I felt no hunger and was hyper-focused.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 5,056 -
    Ryan, in your article you mention keto can benefit:

    Longevity
    Makes fasting easier
    Stable energy levels
    Increased endurance
    Increased Cognitive performance
    Increased weight loss
    Decreased inflammation
    Mood stabilization (ADD/Depression/Anxiety/Autism)
    Increased mitochondrial function
    Lowering oxidative stress
    Cancer protection
    Heart disease protection
    Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s prevention
    Relief to symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis
    Quality of life
    PCOS
    Lowering risk of Type 2 Diabetes

    Now some of those, like type II, are sort of self-explanatory, but that's one hell of a lot of diverse claims. Any source material?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Ryan, in your article you mention keto can benefit:

    Longevity
    Makes fasting easier
    Stable energy levels
    Increased endurance
    Increased Cognitive performance
    Increased weight loss
    Decreased inflammation
    Mood stabilization (ADD/Depression/Anxiety/Autism)
    Increased mitochondrial function
    Lowering oxidative stress
    Cancer protection
    Heart disease protection
    Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s prevention
    Relief to symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis
    Quality of life
    PCOS
    Lowering risk of Type 2 Diabetes

    Now some of those, like type II, are sort of self-explanatory, but that's one hell of a lot of diverse claims. Any source material?

    Science and nature are my source.

    I'll pick out one or two and explain them in further depth.

    Talk Soon,
    RTL
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Ryan, in your article you mention keto can benefit:

    Longevity
    Makes fasting easier
    Stable energy levels
    Increased endurance
    Increased Cognitive performance
    Increased weight loss
    Decreased inflammation
    Mood stabilization (ADD/Depression/Anxiety/Autism)
    Increased mitochondrial function
    Lowering oxidative stress
    Cancer protection
    Heart disease protection
    Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s prevention
    Relief to symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis
    Quality of life
    PCOS
    Lowering risk of Type 2 Diabetes

    Now some of those, like type II, are sort of self-explanatory, but that's one hell of a lot of diverse claims. Any source material?

    Science and nature are my source.

    There is plenty of science on the opposite side of some of your claims. Just to pick a few -
    I don't think there is a single blue zone that eat keto diet.
    I doubt there is much science on increase quality of life die to decreased CHO?
    Pretty sure it is well established that high blood lipid levels/cholesterol are risk factors for hear disease(still #1 kill in US I think), and a high fat diet is NOT going to help people who have this problem.
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Ryan, in your article you mention keto can benefit:

    Longevity
    Makes fasting easier
    Stable energy levels
    Increased endurance
    Increased Cognitive performance
    Increased weight loss
    Decreased inflammation
    Mood stabilization (ADD/Depression/Anxiety/Autism)
    Increased mitochondrial function
    Lowering oxidative stress
    Cancer protection
    Heart disease protection
    Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s prevention
    Relief to symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis
    Quality of life
    PCOS
    Lowering risk of Type 2 Diabetes

    Now some of those, like type II, are sort of self-explanatory, but that's one hell of a lot of diverse claims. Any source material?

    Science and nature are my source.

    I'll pick out one or two and explain them in further depth.

    Talk Soon,
    RTL

    @TheGameKat Did you read the text in the primer following the list?

    Do you have a specific question?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 5,056 -
    Yeah, I was mostly being lazy figuring if you'd already done the research I wasn't going to reproduce it. Was interested in any peer-reviewed info particularly relating to mood disorders.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    kenaces wrote: »
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Ryan, in your article you mention keto can benefit:

    Longevity
    Makes fasting easier
    Stable energy levels
    Increased endurance
    Increased Cognitive performance
    Increased weight loss
    Decreased inflammation
    Mood stabilization (ADD/Depression/Anxiety/Autism)
    Increased mitochondrial function
    Lowering oxidative stress
    Cancer protection
    Heart disease protection
    Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s prevention
    Relief to symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis
    Quality of life
    PCOS
    Lowering risk of Type 2 Diabetes

    Now some of those, like type II, are sort of self-explanatory, but that's one hell of a lot of diverse claims. Any source material?

    Science and nature are my source.

    There is plenty of science on the opposite side of some of your claims. Just to pick a few -
    I don't think there is a single blue zone that eat keto diet.
    I doubt there is much science on increase quality of life die to decreased CHO?
    Pretty sure it is well established that high blood lipid levels/cholesterol are risk factors for hear disease(still #1 kill in US I think), and a high fat diet is NOT going to help people who have this problem.


    My understanding of the the chemisty, cellular biology, anatomy, physiology, psychology, philosophy, physics, biomechanics, nutrition, mathematics, and evolutionary science has led me to this point.

    You don't have to agree and that's okay with me.

    If you bothered to read the article it says keto is not for everyone.

    Talk Soon,
    RTL
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Yeah, I was mostly being lazy figuring if you'd already done the research I wasn't going to reproduce it. Was interested in any peer-reviewed info particularly relating to mood disorders.

    Linkage to lack of exercise, shitty nutrition, lack of meaningful human connection, and crappy sleep is the short answer off the top of my head.

    Are you guys beginning to see the picture yet?


    RTL
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    kenaces wrote: »
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Ryan, in your article you mention keto can benefit:

    Longevity
    Makes fasting easier
    Stable energy levels
    Increased endurance
    Increased Cognitive performance
    Increased weight loss
    Decreased inflammation
    Mood stabilization (ADD/Depression/Anxiety/Autism)
    Increased mitochondrial function
    Lowering oxidative stress
    Cancer protection
    Heart disease protection
    Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s prevention
    Relief to symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis
    Quality of life
    PCOS
    Lowering risk of Type 2 Diabetes

    Now some of those, like type II, are sort of self-explanatory, but that's one hell of a lot of diverse claims. Any source material?

    Science and nature are my source.

    There is plenty of science on the opposite side of some of your claims. Just to pick a few -
    I don't think there is a single blue zone that eat keto diet.
    I doubt there is much science on increase quality of life die to decreased CHO?
    Pretty sure it is well established that high blood lipid levels/cholesterol are risk factors for hear disease(still #1 kill in US I think), and a high fat diet is NOT going to help people who have this problem.


    My understanding of the the chemisty, cellular biology, anatomy, physiology, psychology, philosophy, physics, biomechanics, nutrition, mathematics, and evolutionary science has led me to this point.

    Claiming some scientific bases for keto being some magic bullet diet - It is not that I don't agree with you it is that the preponderance of scientific evidence doesn't support your claims.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »

    Linkage to lack of exercise, shitty nutrition, lack of meaningful human connection, and crappy sleep is the short answer off the top of my head.

    RTL

    This I agree with :)

  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    @kenaces You mean to say that your understanding of the current science doesn't align with mine, right?
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    kenaces wrote: »
    RTLHPoker wrote: »

    Linkage to lack of exercise, shitty nutrition, lack of meaningful human connection, and crappy sleep is the short answer off the top of my head.

    RTL

    This I agree with :)

    What if I told you:
    1. Disease is a sickness which can be severe or minute.
    2. The longer you continue to treat your body in a shitty manner the more likely you are to experience increasingly adverse physical and mental ailments.

    What then is disease? Your body's response to conditions it should not be subjected to.

    Would this change your perception of things?

    Everybody is sick and healthy. We only differ in degree.

    There are a few pillars to health and they cannot be ranked. They are equally important.

    1. Sleep
    2. Diet
    3. Exercise
    4. Relationships

    Master these 4 areas.

    Talk soon,
    RTL
  • LukaLuka Red Chipper Posts: 216 ✭✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Ryan, in your article you mention keto can benefit:

    Longevity
    Makes fasting easier
    Stable energy levels
    Increased endurance
    Increased Cognitive performance
    Increased weight loss
    Decreased inflammation
    Mood stabilization (ADD/Depression/Anxiety/Autism)
    Increased mitochondrial function
    Lowering oxidative stress
    Cancer protection
    Heart disease protection
    Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s prevention
    Relief to symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis
    Quality of life
    PCOS
    Lowering risk of Type 2 Diabetes

    Now some of those, like type II, are sort of self-explanatory, but that's one hell of a lot of diverse claims. Any source material?

    The book “Fat for Fuel” explains a lot of the science behind this.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    kenaces wrote: »
    RTLHPoker wrote: »

    Linkage to lack of exercise, shitty nutrition, lack of meaningful human connection, and crappy sleep is the short answer off the top of my head.

    RTL

    This I agree with :)

    What if I told you:
    1. Disease is a sickness which can be severe or minute.
    2. The longer you continue to treat your body in a shitty manner the more likely you are to experience increasingly adverse physical and mental ailments.

    What then is disease? Your body's response to conditions it should not be subjected to.

    Would this change your perception of things?

    Everybody is sick and healthy. We only differ in degree.

    There are a few pillars to health and they cannot be ranked. They are equally important.

    1. Sleep
    2. Diet
    3. Exercise
    4. Relationships

    Master these 4 areas.

    Talk soon,
    RTL

    I already said I agree with this
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    @kenaces You mean to say that your understanding of the current science doesn't align with mine, right?

    Not just me - AMA, ADA, ACS, ASN....... I don't recall seeing any reputable health group/organization recommending a keto diet.

    Not saying there might be some limited benefits - i.e. increased fat oxidation for very long endurance events, possible help with epilepsy, possible help for type 2 diebetes. It is NOT some magic pill, and definitely has some risks.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    Luka wrote: »
    The book “Fat for Fuel” explains a lot of the science behind this.

    I haven't read it, but I am always a little suspicious of nutrition authors who make a living selling supplements.
  • dave3096dave3096 Red Chipper Posts: 30 ✭✭
    then check out "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living."
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    kenaces wrote: »
    Luka wrote: »
    The book “Fat for Fuel” explains a lot of the science behind this.

    I haven't read it, but I am always a little suspicious of nutrition authors who make a living selling supplements.

    Yeah @kenaces I think you've done a great job of calling all my knowledge, experience, science, and results bullshit.

    So you're suspicious of a guy selling a book but not an entire healthcare industry huh?

    Interesting view of the "facts".

    Talk Soon,
    RTL





  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    kenaces wrote: »
    Luka wrote: »
    The book “Fat for Fuel” explains a lot of the science behind this.

    I haven't read it, but I am always a little suspicious of nutrition authors who make a living selling supplements.

    Yeah @kenaces I think you've done a great job of calling all my knowledge, experience, science, and results bullshit.

    So you're suspicious of a guy selling a book but not an entire healthcare industry huh?

    Interesting view of the "facts".

    Talk Soon,
    RTL

    You are right I am a born skeptic. Like I already said above we likely agree on lots of things. I really know nothing about your personal knowledge, experience, and results so I don't have an opinion.

    Dr Mercola is more than just a guy selling books/supplements, he has made a lot of unfounded claims over the last 10+ years. - I don't recall all the details but he has been in trouble with FDA, and other groups for some of his outrageous claims.

    I do agree that some of the groups I mentioned above have their own set of problems.
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    kenaces wrote: »
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    kenaces wrote: »
    Luka wrote: »
    The book “Fat for Fuel” explains a lot of the science behind this.

    I haven't read it, but I am always a little suspicious of nutrition authors who make a living selling supplements.

    Yeah @kenaces I think you've done a great job of calling all my knowledge, experience, science, and results bullshit.

    So you're suspicious of a guy selling a book but not an entire healthcare industry huh?

    Interesting view of the "facts".

    Talk Soon,
    RTL

    You are right I am a born skeptic. Like I already said above we likely agree on lots of things. I really know nothing about your personal knowledge, experience, and results so I don't have an opinion.

    Dr Mercola is more than just a guy selling books/supplements, he has made a lot of unfounded claims over the last 10+ years. - I don't recall all the details but he has been in trouble with FDA, and other groups for some of his outrageous claims.

    I do agree that some of the groups I mentioned above have their own set of problems.

    You are missing the picture and no amount of data will change your mind.

    Hence I provide you none.

    Your perspective of the situation must change and only then once you open your mind to the possibility of the polar opposite can you begin to accept the truth.

    I'm a data guy @kenaces . degree in computer engineering from R.I.T.


    I've learned the depths of my personal ignorance are limitless.

    Talk Soon,
    RTL

  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    kenaces wrote: »
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    kenaces wrote: »
    Luka wrote: »
    The book “Fat for Fuel” explains a lot of the science behind this.

    I haven't read it, but I am always a little suspicious of nutrition authors who make a living selling supplements.

    Yeah @kenaces I think you've done a great job of calling all my knowledge, experience, science, and results bullshit.

    So you're suspicious of a guy selling a book but not an entire healthcare industry huh?

    Interesting view of the "facts".

    Talk Soon,
    RTL

    You are right I am a born skeptic. Like I already said above we likely agree on lots of things. I really know nothing about your personal knowledge, experience, and results so I don't have an opinion.

    Dr Mercola is more than just a guy selling books/supplements, he has made a lot of unfounded claims over the last 10+ years. - I don't recall all the details but he has been in trouble with FDA, and other groups for some of his outrageous claims.

    I do agree that some of the groups I mentioned above have their own set of problems.

    You are missing the picture and no amount of data will change your mind.

    Hence I provide you none.

    Your perspective of the situation must change and only then once you open your mind to the possibility of the polar opposite can you begin to accept the truth.

    I'm a data guy @kenaces . degree in computer engineering from R.I.T.


    I've learned the depths of my personal ignorance are limitless.

    Talk Soon,
    RTL

    You haven't provided ANY data? To be fair neither have I as I don't want to spend the time posting hundreds of pubmed links.

    I have changed my mind, and reserve my right to do so again in the future. There was a time many years ago when I thought atkins/keto might be the way to go.

    I have a B.S degree in Health Science, and some graduate studies in physiology - So what this really isn't relevant to my argument that the preponderance of current nutritional science doesn't support many of the over the top claims your blog made.

    Let's just agree to disagree and compare notes in 10 years.
This discussion has been closed.