Loose big win small?

dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
First I am playing $1/$2 live and .1/.2 online.
I manually track my big starting hands. Take AA for example. If I get AA 5 times lets say I win 4 and loose 1. Those 4 wins are typically very small. Not any larger than any other winning hand. Presumably however AA just wins more often. The problem is when I loose with AA its most often a big loss. This makes sense because AA is harder to let go of. This is even worse with KK because KK will win even less but the loses will tend to be just as big. and worse with QQ etc..

In theory, the way people are winning (with trips and straights and 2 pair) should be harder and over time it should be profitable for me. Adding in all my other strong starting hands the W amounts are small while the L amounts still tend to be much larger because these are good hands. There are absolutely more W than L but not 10x as many.

Where do I make up for this?

Comments

  • N AN A Red Chipper Posts: 147 ✭✭
    dnoyeB wrote: »
    First I am playing $1/$2 live and .1/.2 online.
    I manually track my big starting hands. Take AA for example. If I get AA 5 times lets say I win 4 and loose 1. Those 4 wins are typically very small. Not any larger than any other winning hand. Presumably however AA just wins more often. The problem is when I loose with AA its most often a big loss. This makes sense because AA is harder to let go of. This is even worse with KK because KK will win even less but the loses will tend to be just as big. and worse with QQ etc..

    In theory, the way people are winning (with trips and straights and 2 pair) should be harder and over time it should be profitable for me. Adding in all my other strong starting hands the W amounts are small while the L amounts still tend to be much larger because these are good hands. There are absolutely more W than L but not 10x as many.

    Where do I make up for this?

    Play more hands. If you play really tight, every time you raise, they know it's AA, that's why nobody's giving you action.


  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    Are you playing your hands in such way where only better hands can call?

    Take AA for example, I see some players raise large preflop, then overbet shove the flop. This line guarantees them to win many small pots and lose couple large pots. Because they bet so big they are folding out all worse hands, and only flopped 2P or better will call.

    Always think about what your opponent can call you with, and you should see this problem go away.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dnoyeB wrote: »
    This makes sense because AA is harder to let go of. This is even worse with KK because KK will win even less but the loses will tend to be just as big. and worse with QQ etc..

    But this is compensated by the fact that they're easier to let go of, right?

  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    AA beats LOTS of hands so on average it will win smaller but more often. That makes sense right? But AA is only beat by at least 2 pair, so when it looses the hands in the pot will on average be stronger than when it wins. So bigger pot. Does that make sense? Its not me shoving people out of the hand, its just that most of the losing (and folding) hands are quite weak in comparison to the winning ones.

    I think this is a philosophical question. How is a broadway pocket pair supposed to make money when it has such high reverse implied odds? I know I must be missing something.

    If the answer is to fold more then that might reduce my big losses but it will also guarantee no big wins. Maybe AA is just not the hand I thought it was.
  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 323 ✭✭✭
    Without addressing your direct concerns (which are mostly rational, but don't see the biggest picture), why are you asking these questions in the first place?

    There's almost always something deeper going on with your mental game here, have you suffered a certain amount of variance your brain wasn't prepared for? It could definitely lead to asking questions to see if there's something you could do about it, but these are the wrong questions to be asking
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    Are you playing your hands in such way where only better hands can call?

    Take AA for example, I see some players raise large preflop, then overbet shove the flop. This line guarantees them to win many small pots and lose couple large pots. Because they bet so big they are folding out all worse hands, and only flopped 2P or better will call.

    Always think about what your opponent can call you with, and you should see this problem go away.

    I have fixed this issue a few months ago. I might need a larger raise preflop but on the flop I try not to push them out. One problem is when the board gets there I guess I need to fold. This has the feeling of seeing ghosts everywhere. Always thinking they hit. I might need to play on a different place from Global Poker so I can see my hands history and understand how I play better.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    jeffnc wrote: »
    But this is compensated by the fact that they're easier to let go of, right?
    Only when there is an overcard on the board. If your against someone having a higher PP then no.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd re-frame @N A's comment this way: The question shouldn't be how you play AA but rather how you play the range into which AA fits.

    It could be (probably is?) that you play AA differently from the other hands in that range. If so, then your opponents are pretty clear that that's what you have (AA or KK), and then they can stay in with speculative hands since they know that they'll get paid off if it hits big.

    If you are playing a range the same way -- and AA is just part of it -- then your opponents can't only play for the big score since they won't get paid off enough to make it worth their while.

    A baseball analogy: Say that you have the best fastball in the history of the majors, consistently throwing at it 110 MPH. And say that you tip your pitches. Yeah, most players will probably strike out more often than not even if they know what's coming, but the ones who hit it are going to hit it over the fence.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    It's not just AA. It is indeed the strong hands. It seems more difficult to know when they are beat. I do tend to 3bet these hands preflop. So the standard raise sequence from then on leads to bigger pots. Good when I win. But the wins seem to come on the flop mostly whereas the losses are on the river.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    tripletire wrote: »
    There's almost always something deeper going on with your mental game here, have you suffered a certain amount of variance your brain wasn't prepared for? It could definitely lead to asking questions to see if there's something you could do about it, but these are the wrong questions to be asking

    Yes. Trying to know what I don't even know how to articulate. I need to either stop loosing big on these hands or make it up somewhere else. Not sure the right approach.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    dnoyeB wrote: »
    It's not just AA. It is indeed the strong hands. It seems more difficult to know when they are beat. I do tend to 3bet these hands preflop. So the standard raise sequence from then on leads to bigger pots. Good when I win. But the wins seem to come on the flop mostly whereas the losses are on the river.

    1. My post above is the same; just replace "AA" with "strong hands". If you're predictable, then you're easy to beat no matter what your game is.

    2. It sounds from this like it might be an issue of board texture. AA plays much better against some boards than others, and AA needs to be played differently (like any hand) in different positions on different boards. Maybe the issue is somewhere there?

    Or maybe a combo of 1 and 2?
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    I think its more #2 than #1. I'm not very predictable. You wouldn't know which hand I was playing except for the fact that I haven't folded.

    I've been watching all the pro videos on board texture. There really seems to be a lot to say about what flop favors the raiser or the in position person, etc. Lot to learn I guess.

    If I get to vegas this summer I'll probably try to get some live coaching...
  • N AN A Red Chipper Posts: 147 ✭✭
    It is ok to fold AA when you know it's beat. Be confident in your read and just fold like it's nothing.. Move on to the next hand. If you play a lot of poker, you'll see a lot of premium hands coming.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I'm much less excited about aces than when I started, except maybe when there's some crazy preflop action. It's funny, I remember how many forum hands on the internet used to be about AA hands, and I'm thinking "These guys know there are 168 other hands, right?"

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