Advance play or FPS at 1\2\3

AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
Utg (400) limps 3
*recreational player a little splashy, but a thinking player.
Utg+1 (150) limps 3 loose splashy
Hero (500) mp1 limps 3
:Ac :Jh
Co limps 3
Btn (450) raises to $22
Utg calls $22
Utg+1 calls $22
Hero raises to $120

I think my sizing might be a little large but 5x vs a raise and 2 callers seems right. Effective stacks puts players in a difficult spot.

Comments

  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    What are you repping? What is your limp re-raise strategy? What hands are you targeting to fold?
    In my experience stuff like this can turn ugly rather quickly, and without a clear thought out strategy of why you are limping/attempting to re-raise, this can turn into a shove, re-shove, you all of the sudden aren't loving it but are calling it off situation.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jfarrow13 wrote: »
    What are you repping? What is your limp re-raise strategy? What hands are you targeting to fold?
    In my experience stuff like this can turn ugly rather quickly, and without a clear thought out strategy of why you are limping/attempting to re-raise, this can turn into a shove, re-shove, you all of the sudden aren't loving it but are calling it off situation.

    I'm basically repping QQ+ here. I have a tag image but also unorthodox where i can have big pairs in my back raise range.

    Btn raising range is
    77+, A10o+, KQ+, suited broadways.

    Doesn't matter too much what the other two players called with, probably baby pairs or random SCs.

    What hands can BTN actually call with? Sure he can have QQ or KK here maybe calls with TT. I'm oop postflop but shouldn't be too hard to play. I can make this same play with AA and if im called by 1 player pot would be (290ish). I would just bet like $75-90 post with decent equity hands or check and give up.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    Do you really limp re-raise a lot?
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    I'm basically repping QQ+ here. I have a tag image but also unorthodox where i can have big pairs in my back raise range.

    But how often will you have limp-"cold" 3bet premium hands versus the times you've TT-ish type of hands and want to iso/take the hand down?
    If Villain/s is/are thinking player type, then they will have observe your limping pattern. If so, you really need to be nicely balance to have a good line here, which is hard (and not really expected from the majority of 1/3 players pool and could serve as basis for Villains thoughts).

    Also BU is uncapped - and IP. Limp-raising against a raising Villain needs him to have enough combo to fold after a squeeze as well for your bluff to be +EV enough of the time in such situation.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30
    I have limp reraised in this spot before depending on how splashy button is and how many folds I think I can get from the other players, but never with AA/KK unless button is a maniac.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jfarrow13 wrote: »
    Do you really limp re-raise a lot?

    Wouldn't make this play if i did. Earlier in the session i had AA and tried the same play. Went 8 ways to the flop. Flop JT5. Bet 2 callers. Turn J check goes bet and call and safely folded. 90% of the time its a big pair or i am iso short stack.

    For example say i flat TT vs utg raise in MP for $12, 1 caller behind me, BB shoves for $50, utg calls $38 more. Here i might raise considering the $50 in dead money. You see those players who call just to gamble against short stack and now it's obvious TT is the best hand. 90% value 10% Axs type hand.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    I'm basically repping QQ+ here. I have a tag image but also unorthodox where i can have big pairs in my back raise range.

    But how often will you have limp-"cold" 3bet premium hands versus the times you've TT-ish type of hands and want to iso/take the hand down?
    If Villain/s is/are thinking player type, then they will have observe your limping pattern. If so, you really need to be nicely balance to have a good line here, which is hard (and not really expected from the majority of 1/3 players pool and could serve as basis for Villains thoughts).

    Also BU is uncapped - and IP. Limp-raising against a raising Villain needs him to have enough combo to fold after a squeeze as well for your bluff to be +EV enough of the time in such situation.

    I am not a typical 1/3 player. My limp raise is not balanced as low stakes is pure value almost. However, if i see a spot ill take it. That is what makes you a 5bb winner compared to 10bb winner. Have to deviate from AbC poker. I think i ranged him right. I asked him what he hand TT? He said not that good, but a hand worth $50. He was basically only calling a min raise. Crossed the $100 pain threshold for this table and didn't jeopardize my stack as im putting in only about 25% of it preflop which players use as a rule in 4 bet pots usually when bluffing. If BTN had say $300 or less i don't think this would be a good play.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Why are those the two choices?

    ?
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30
    @persuadeo sometimes doesn't quote but relies on the order of the messages coming in to imply who he's referring to, so I'm assuming he's referring to me. The only 2 choices I saw in my post were AA/KK.

    What I was trying to say was that if I'm at a table where I think a limp/reraise will work, and all the players in the hand are dummies, then AA/KK might be the only hands I l/rr. If there are thinking players and the l/rr will work with AA/KK, then I'll also do it sometimes with T9s or something. But I'm talking about first in.

    With 2 limpers before me, I'm never limping along with AA/KK unless I think there's a maniac behind me with a huge chance of raising. In that case, I'll l/rr a much wider range than that, but you have to watch out for smart limpers in front of you who are thinking the same way you are. I've made this play with AJ before, folded out the maniac, and then run into QQ+ an awful lot from the EP players who were trying the same thing as I, and I was the one who ended up getting trapped.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jeffnc wrote: »
    @persuadeo sometimes doesn't quote but relies on the order of the messages coming in to imply who he's referring to, so I'm assuming he's referring to me. The only 2 choices I saw in my post were AA/KK.

    What I was trying to say was that if I'm at a table where I think a limp/reraise will work, and all the players in the hand are dummies, then AA/KK might be the only hands I l/rr. If there are thinking players and the l/rr will work with AA/KK, then I'll also do it sometimes with T9s or something. But I'm talking about first in.

    With 2 limpers before me, I'm never limping along with AA/KK unless I think there's a maniac behind me with a huge chance of raising. In that case, I'll l/rr a much wider range than that, but you have to watch out for smart limpers in front of you who are thinking the same way you are. I've made this play with AJ before, folded out the maniac, and then run into QQ+ an awful lot from the EP players who were trying the same thing as I, and I was the one who ended up getting trapped.

    Some times Its best to be 2nd or 3rd limper when you back raise facing tricky EP limpers. If you were say 2nd limper with AJ and you over limped. 2 other limps and btn raises now utg L\RR its an easy fold.

    I actually prefer not to be the 1st limper when i have AA or KK because it's usually too face up even against donkeys, they look at the BB and see you limped RR from UTG and so many people make this play because of Doyle's book.

    Modern day even a donkey is not fooled.

    I'm a little curious about limping hands like AJ and KQ from EP which can be outright folds from utg or hands like KTs and QTs in order to play more hands and keep ranges wide. I think raising them, while they have playability your likely oop against 2-3 players with a dominated hand. Not sure if playing these hands for a limp MW is ok.. This could be another forum. For the most part i raise or fold them first in. Ill mix up limping, over limping, raising, and folding. I don't have much of an EP strategy for these hands as stacks are usually not very deep 60-150bb at 1\3 and 60-170bb at 2\5.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Some times Its best to be 2nd or 3rd limper when you back raise facing tricky EP limpers. If you were say 2nd limper with AJ and you over limped. 2 other limps and btn raises now utg L\RR its an easy fold.

    Actually when I was thinking about this I was thinking about the person limping after me, the button raising and me 3-betting. The person after now 4-bets. So yes, it's easier to limp and fold without putting any money in if it happens ahead of you with a really tight range.

  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    However, if i see a spot ill take it. That is what makes you a 5bb winner compared to 10bb winner.


    I've actually found the opposite recently. Maybe it's a good run of cards, or whatever (dunno ran KK into AA pre-flop 2 times this month in like 15 hours of play), but me knocking off like excessive crap from my game, and focusing on a more ABC game with solid, well thought out deviations seems to be working a lot better for me. I actually have only limped re-raised once this month, with :KC: :TC: UTG when I noticed a young aggro guy was stealing from the BU really often. So I limp re-raised him with a hand that had good play-ability if he called the 3-bet, but likely would just get through. It worked. I'd also resort to that limp re-raise if the table was super active and they just never caught on to what I was doing. Adjustments n stuff. Still, it's not part of my game when I sit down, but may be added in as I get adjusted to the table.
  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    It's sometimes hard to distinguish a move between advanced play or FPS. In general though, if the move fits in your overall strategy, its advanced play, where if the move is spaz of the moment, it's probably FPS.

    If you have an overall limp-3 bet strategy, AJo could fit in that strategy to balance your value combos. If your standard 3 bet size is 4x (because OOP) the raise plus 1 per caller, then GTO speaking you should have 4 bluffs for every value combo. So if your value combo consists of QQ+AK totaling 34 combos, you should have 45 bluffs. It's good idea to sprinkle the bluffs all over so you are harder to play against.

    For example my limp 3 bet strategy from EP consists only AA and KK as value combos, so I need 16 bluffs. Which consists of all black combos of 22-66, red combos of JTs, A3-A5 in spades, and all the middling suited gappers in hearts.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    It's sometimes hard to distinguish a move between advanced play or FPS. In general though, if the move fits in your overall strategy, its advanced play, where if the move is spaz of the moment, it's probably FPS.

    it's really as simple as this:
    if you have to ask if this is a good move then it's FPS.

    when @Christian Soto or @berkey11 make a move - they never ask for permission or a critique. They have a plan and they simply execute it.

    by the time the button raise gets to Hero - there's more than $66 in the pot.
    Add our $22 and it's 88.... so the field now has to call 98 to win 88.
    if I'm the button - I'm probably calling my entire raising range.
    I'll have position and eff sp will be like 2+
    I would have preferred a larger sizing so flop is an easy pot-size shove
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    kagey wrote: »
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    It's sometimes hard to distinguish a move between advanced play or FPS. In general though, if the move fits in your overall strategy, its advanced play, where if the move is spaz of the moment, it's probably FPS.

    it's really as simple as this:
    if you have to ask if this is a good move then it's FPS.

    when @Christian Soto or @berkey11 make a move - they never ask for permission or a critique. They have a plan and they simply execute it.

    by the time the button raise gets to Hero - there's more than $66 in the pot.
    Add our $22 and it's 88.... so the field now has to call 98 to win 88.
    if I'm the button - I'm probably calling my entire raising range.
    I'll have position and eff sp will be like 2+
    I would have preferred a larger sizing so flop is an easy pot-size shove

    Prefer a larger sizing than a PSB? Your calling 5x 3 bet with your entire raising range and putting in 25% of your stack (40bb) with a hand like say A8s? 55? 87s? This seems like a bad call unless you have a super tight iso range.

    Guess i should remain arrogant and stop posting since I'm confident in my play. Why help others learn. Is that why you never post @kagey you have all the answers?
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    Austin wrote: »
    Utg (400) limps 3
    *recreational player a little splashy, but a thinking player.
    Utg+1 (150) limps 3 loose splashy
    Hero (500) mp1 limps 3
    :Ac :Jh
    Co limps 3
    Btn (450) raises to $22
    Utg calls $22
    Utg+1 calls $22
    Hero raises to $120

    I think my sizing might be a little large but 5x vs a raise and 2 callers seems right. Effective stacks puts players in a difficult spot.

    It doesn’t put OR in a difficult spot.

    I think he should consider shoving his merge that blocks given you rep so narrow and the likelihood is you are merged yourself given action thus far.

    Now what he should do and will do are often rather different things. So maybe you had a live read that he will just give you QQ+ and fold. Or he will continue with the merge through a call often.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    Austin wrote: »
    Prefer a larger sizing than a PSB? Your calling 5x 3 bet with your entire raising range and putting in 25% of your stack (40bb) with a hand like say A8s? 55? 87s? This seems like a bad call unless you have a super tight iso range.

    Part of my strat is to open hands I can defend to a 3-bet.
    If I'm raising to 22 over 4 limpers - it's not to take down the limps... it's because I have a very strong hand that I want to get value for. My opens have a purpose.
    Austin wrote: »
    Guess i should remain arrogant and stop posting since I'm confident in my play. Why help others learn? Is that why you never post @kagey you have all the answers?
    C'mon now, @Austin
    if you're confident in your play - that's good.
    I didn't realize you were asking a rhetorical question.
    If that's the case, then my apologies... I misunderstood your question.
    personally, I stopped posting for the same reasons many others who came thru the ranks at the same time we did also stopped posting: I've built my game to a point where solutions as to what I should do are inherently implied in my strat. And because of this, my answers to your questions may totally conflict with your play because you're executing a totally different strategy.

    btw... now you can see why guys like farrow and Red were asking so many questions as to how you play your premiums and how often you do so... they're asking because such a squeeze spot should not be a one-off but part of a larger picture/strategy

    again, my apologies if you already had the answers and were just pondering out loud.
    truth is: without clear player profiles and knowledge of their tendencies as well as their ranges, it would be hard to come up with an ideal sizing. But like I said, IF I decided to play AJ in a tricky/trappy style - I'd make it so my bet would get pass the OR... otherwise if he calls, all others will too... and then we'd be at the mercy of the dealer.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭✭
    seems like FPS to me
  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    kagey wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    Prefer a larger sizing than a PSB? Your calling 5x 3 bet with your entire raising range and putting in 25% of your stack (40bb) with a hand like say A8s? 55? 87s? This seems like a bad call unless you have a super tight iso range.

    Part of my strat is to open hands I can defend to a 3-bet.
    If I'm raising to 22 over 4 limpers - it's not to take down the limps... it's because I have a very strong hand that I want to get value for. My opens have a purpose.

    There are a couple problem with this line of thinking.

    First, you should not be calling 3 bets with baby pairs, unless the stacks are deep enough for a profitable set mine, which is certainly not in this particular hand. You also responded one of my posts several months back, saying that small pairs are a favorite against 2 high cards so I should be calling with it. But equity does not equal playability. Say if the SPR is <2 and flop comes 57J, now 22 is 75% favorite against AK. But be honest, would you be more comfortable holding 22 or AK in this situation? You can put some baby pairs in your 4 bet shove range with such stack sizes depending on table dynamics, but never should you just cold call a 3 bet with them.

    Second, you shouldn't never fold to a 3 bet, in fact, GTO speaking, you should be folding to 3 bets most of the time. if you are calling 3 bets majority of the time, then you are either opening too tight, where there are not enough bluffs in your opening range, or you are being exploited by your opponents, who would have no incentive to 3 bet bluff you, in turn you are almost always behind when someone 3 bets you. Never underestimate your opponents' ability to adjust to your tendencies, or you will be playing a dangerous game.

  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    kagey wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    Prefer a larger sizing than a PSB? Your calling 5x 3 bet with your entire raising range and putting in 25% of your stack (40bb) with a hand like say A8s? 55? 87s? This seems like a bad call unless you have a super tight iso range.

    Part of my strat is to open hands I can defend to a 3-bet.
    If I'm raising to 22 over 4 limpers - it's not to take down the limps... it's because I have a very strong hand that I want to get value for. My opens have a purpose.

    There are several problem with this line of thinking.

    First, you should not be calling 3 bets with baby pairs, unless the stacks are deep enough for a profitable set mine, which is certainly not in this particular hand. You also responded one of my posts several months back, saying that small pairs are a favorite against 2 high cards so I should be calling with it. But equity does not equal playability. Say if the SPR is <2 and flop comes 57J, now 22 is 75% favorite against AK. But be honest, would you rather hold 22 or AK in this situation? You can put some baby pairs in your 4 bet shove range with such stack sizes depending on table dynamics, but never should you just cold call a 3 bet with them.

    Second, you shouldn't never fold to a 3 bet, in fact, GTO speaking, you should be folding to 3 bets most of the time. if you are calling 3 bets majority of the time, then you are either opening too tight, where there are not enough bluffs in your opening range, or you are being exploited by your opponents, who would have no incentive to 3 bet bluff you, in turn you are almost always behind when someone 3 bets you. Never underestimate your opponents' ability to adjust to your tendencies, or you will be playing a dangerous game.

    I disagree unfortunately.

    1) You can call with almost the entirety of your opening range assuming you are opening a range constructed to defend versus 3Bs and you can also over defend against a player profile who will play “honestly” often.

    @kagey is probably passing up on some thin opens in LP spots like A9o from the CO in order to have a more well protected preflop range that can defend versus Three Bets. TBH I do this too.

    But in exchange he’s opening looser up front where he isn’t getting three bet often anyway which allows for a loose image.

    Just a preflop approach that works better with his overall strategy imo.

    2) I’m unsure where you got “GTO speaking we should be folding to most 3Bs” (paraphrasing). We should be continuing pretty often versus 3Bs from what I understand. I’m sure some math guys in here can do the math on Minimum Defense Frequencies to prove that point.

    3) What do you mean by bluffing in an opening range? Is KQo a bluff? 78s a bluff? ATs? What’s a bluff preflop?
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    kagey wrote: »
    btw... now you can see why guys like farrow and Red were asking so many questions as to how you play your premiums and how often you do so... they're asking because such a squeeze spot should not be a one-off but part of a larger picture/strategy
    This is gold.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    First, you should not be calling 3 bets with baby pairs, unless the stacks are deep enough for a profitable set mine, which is certainly not in this particular hand. You also responded one of my posts several months back, saying that small pairs are a favorite against 2 high cards so I should be calling with it. But equity does not equal playability. Say if the SPR is <2 and flop comes 57J, now 22 is 75% favorite against AK. But be honest, would you be more comfortable holding 22 or AK in this situation? You can put some baby pairs in your 4 bet shove range with such stack sizes depending on table dynamics, but never should you just cold call a 3 bet with them.

    @Yanming Z , there was nothing in my post that stated that I would open baby pairs from the button and cold-call a 3-bet. (you probably misread when I said: "if I'm raising to $22 from the button..." was talking bet sizing not hand.)
    Not only do I have an opening range - but a limping one too!

    as for set-mining... most players typically only play baby pairs for set-mining, card removal or 4-straight boards... but I don't. I play them as a pair and am very comfortable putting pressure on other players if the board favors my range vs. theirs. even if the board has overs.

    it's obvious AKs has more "barrelability" than say 44... but it's just another hand that you'll have in your range that you should play in a way that gives you the most profit.
    There are times when I lean on hand equities and other times when I favor fold equity.
    Which I lean on will often depend on my opponent/(s).

    As far as putting 22-66 in my 4-bet shoving range... we'll have to agree to disagree here.
    (Other than in live tournaments, opening up your 4-bet range in low limit cash games is spew-icide.) And as far as saying "NEVER"... I would reconsider this. I don't have any "never" rules in my game. Everything is meant to be examined, followed or broken as the situation calls for. So agains player X, I might 4-bet with 33. But this would be a deviation from my strategy - and not done as part of a deliberate pre-flop calculation.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How do we know for certain this is not a good play over the long haul?

    Because you have no positional protection. You don't have a perceived uncapped range here.

    So let's say we accept the world where we need limp raises - this one will not be your best.

    You're leaning exclusively on leveling your opponent: I'm Austin, the scary wackjob who has KK here a bunch - I dare you to call.

    Once again: deviating first, acting fundamentally second.
  • Yanming ZYanming Z Red Chipper Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    Yanming Z wrote: »
    kagey wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    Prefer a larger sizing than a PSB? Your calling 5x 3 bet with your entire raising range and putting in 25% of your stack (40bb) with a hand like say A8s? 55? 87s? This seems like a bad call unless you have a super tight iso range.

    Part of my strat is to open hands I can defend to a 3-bet.
    If I'm raising to 22 over 4 limpers - it's not to take down the limps... it's because I have a very strong hand that I want to get value for. My opens have a purpose.

    There are several problem with this line of thinking.

    First, you should not be calling 3 bets with baby pairs, unless the stacks are deep enough for a profitable set mine, which is certainly not in this particular hand. You also responded one of my posts several months back, saying that small pairs are a favorite against 2 high cards so I should be calling with it. But equity does not equal playability. Say if the SPR is <2 and flop comes 57J, now 22 is 75% favorite against AK. But be honest, would you rather hold 22 or AK in this situation? You can put some baby pairs in your 4 bet shove range with such stack sizes depending on table dynamics, but never should you just cold call a 3 bet with them.

    Second, you shouldn't never fold to a 3 bet, in fact, GTO speaking, you should be folding to 3 bets most of the time. if you are calling 3 bets majority of the time, then you are either opening too tight, where there are not enough bluffs in your opening range, or you are being exploited by your opponents, who would have no incentive to 3 bet bluff you, in turn you are almost always behind when someone 3 bets you. Never underestimate your opponents' ability to adjust to your tendencies, or you will be playing a dangerous game.

    I disagree unfortunately.

    1) You can call with almost the entirety of your opening range assuming you are opening a range constructed to defend versus 3Bs and you can also over defend against a player profile who will play “honestly” often.

    @kagey is probably passing up on some thin opens in LP spots like A9o from the CO in order to have a more well protected preflop range that can defend versus Three Bets. TBH I do this too.

    But in exchange he’s opening looser up front where he isn’t getting three bet often anyway which allows for a loose image.

    Just a preflop approach that works better with his overall strategy imo.

    2) I’m unsure where you got “GTO speaking we should be folding to most 3Bs” (paraphrasing). We should be continuing pretty often versus 3Bs from what I understand. I’m sure some math guys in here can do the math on Minimum Defense Frequencies to prove that point.

    3) What do you mean by bluffing in an opening range? Is KQo a bluff? 78s a bluff? ATs? What’s a bluff preflop?

    Sorry for not clarifying, my post was strictly about low stake games with a capped buyin. In these games, people rarely 3 bet, say 78s, as a bluff. You should fold most of the time to 3 bets because, as op of this thread, the SPR is often less than 2 after calling 3 bets, making hands like SC and baby pairs unprofitable. This is especially true against people who buy in for less than 100BBs, because whenever they 3 bet they are in all in mode on the flop. As for preflop bluffs, I'm referring to all hands that cannot call a 3 bet profitably in a less than 2 SPR pot, hands such as SCs, baby pairs, and many others.

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Where I agree with most of what was said, this play is player pool exploit and a unique situation. If player pool thinks this is QQ+ or even KK+ using blockers will make this play work very often. You cross the $100 pain threshold which was discussed on this site a lot, you are putting in 25% of your stack with what hand vs a range of KK+? Where this play at 2\5 say if the button made it $30 and i made it $150 (5x) will likely not be as effective. I do think they will gamble a bit more with hands like 99+ AQ+ and ill get 4 bet a decent amount or call. They and others will likely call and pot will go 3 way. This i can agree with. I think this play at 1\3 works with stacks of like 130bb as an exploit. It doesn't come up often enough and the frequency of making this play is probably pretty low. Doesn't mean i should remove it from my tool box. At 2\5 i thinn the sizing would have to be 180-220 to actually get the folds needed. Also with KK and AA i should want to encourage calls where 2\5 having AA here would be closer to $150 sizing and 1\3 sizing would be closer to $90.

    I do mix up my sizings in an unbalanced way but it's not like I'm playing against professionals. For example 1\3 player pool will likely only raise with an over pair, 2 pair+ so when the board comes out say 8s7s3c and your 4 ways ($60) in the pot how much is your cbet with a hand like A5s? Board favors callers range so cbetting $15 is perfectly fine. Keep worse draws like J9o in and get a good price on your draw. If they raise you its likely $40-$50 total and you still get a good price to call. Where KsQs3c you can size up a little bit with range advantage.

    Until I reach 5\10+ I'm not going to worry about defending 3 bets light because players are under 3% and you exploit that by simply folding. That and i tend to be a bit nitty and will likely over fold postflop after leveling myself.

    Appreciate all the feed back and honestly accept it..where AJ long run probably serves best as RFI to say $20-$25 over 1-2 limps at 1\3. I'll accept it as FPS turned into an advance exploit based on player on the button raising and leveraging stacks.

    Having the $120, 98 more, be an easy call with $400ish effective is the only part ill disagree on because my range is so narrow. Postion will become less important in a SPR pot of <2. Where $600+ (200bb) i will agree with everything said above in replies.

    Thanks again.

    Also @kagey some times i post just because i do think it will help others improve their games and hope others do the same. Its rare to get a post from @christian Soto on a HH that we can all learn from. I find it selfish not to post even if im confident in the play. Finding the hand exciting or interesting is enough for me to post it. Maybe someone as yourself will give me enough constructive criticism i change my stance.
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭
    Nice post @Austin

    So in my opinion, only thing I would say is, I rather see this hand in an open range. If limped, I rather see us call and play post with a pretty good hand, potentially find some leads on Jack High Flops where we can leverage OR with players behind to play more true.

    Then construct a more poled limp/3B.

    That’s just my opinion. Keep exploiting when spots arise though.

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