Mississippi Straddle Pot - value own myself?

Baby_SharkBaby_Shark Red Chipper Posts: 74 ✭✭
Game is 1/3 with option to Mississippi straddle from button (live straddle that causes action to start with SB).

Bu is down to last $20 and straddles from button

Bb is $1000 action player.
Hero is in Co with $300. Image is tight tight tight... I've never seen so many 23o in a single session.

Sb folds
Bb calls $20
MP calls $20
Hero has :Ks:Jh
Hero calls $20

Pot $75

Bb checks
Mp checks
Hero Bets $35
Bb calls
Mp folds

Pot $145

Bb checks
Hero bets $50
Bb starts cutting chips, stacking greens and reds in different permutations. Finally settles on 10 red chips to call

Pot $245

Bb bets $80
Hero crying calls.

My kicker is no longer playing on the river. I can only hope to split with another King. Furthermore, the chip cutting on the Turn really gave me the heebie jeebies. But I get 4-1 on a call, so I make a "math call".

How about the flop? Fold and raise are both possible, but there's no fold equity since the Bu is all in blind. Should I be trying to isolate his :Xs:Xc with my K-high since I close the action anyway?


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭✭
    Do I understand right that BU straddle is 20$ (not just 2BB) ?

    If so, it's the 2nd place I know it's possible to BU straddle more than 2bb
  • DeerePokerDeerePoker Red Chipper Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    Do I understand right that BU straddle is 20$ (not just 2BB) ?

    If so, it's the 2nd place I know it's possible to BU straddle more than 2bb

    At my local casino you can straddle any amount even all in If you want from any position other than the blinds.
  • Baby_SharkBaby_Shark Red Chipper Posts: 74 ✭✭
    This game has a unique straddle structure: you can straddle from utg or button only, max$25.

    There is a straddle puck that's worth the same as a red chip $5; if the puck is in your stack, you HAVE TO straddle if you're utg or button. You must add at least$1 to make it a minimum straddle... But then you get called out for nittiness, so $8$10 is standard.

    How about play on the turn/River?
  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 307 ✭✭✭
    Honestly, without raising pre you end up flying a bit blind the rest of the hand. I'd probably size up some on the turn, but as played I don't see how you can fold river.
  • BadgerBadger Red Chipper Posts: 27 ✭✭
    We have the Mississippi straddle in our room too, I am not a fan. If I got ultimate last action I would love it.

    I do like to attack it and especially since the button is all in dark with a nice sized raise.

    I think the chip game might have been to get a read off you.

    I would be really surprised if an action player showed up here with AK, KQ, 99 or the three. I would have expected him to raise you on the turn with a three. I think your chopping a huge amount of the time and the Q cost you half the pot.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    Roblivion wrote: »
    Honestly, without raising pre you end up flying a bit blind the rest of the hand. I'd probably size up some on the turn, but as played I don't see how you can fold river.

    this is where the train comes off the tracks.
    what do we know about V?
    he's an "action player" & he's oop with 300+ bbs.

    now let's go back to the action:
    Button essentially makes a blind raise for 20... the remainder of his stack.
    V in the bb calls.
    What's his range?
    when folks tell me someone is an action player, I assume his calling range to be wide. VERY wide to include any connectors and gappers... and any suited hands.

    we call with KJos.
    this is suboptimal.
    by doing this, we're playing V's game of Bingo! We're calling with the hopes of hitting something that we can then get value from.
    we've got no clarity moving forward...
    meaning... unless we flop the world, we've got no idea where we're at in the hand.

    if we're going to play KJos, we should raise...
    we're raising because we stand to have the best hand and to narrow the field.
    with button capable of having any 2 and non-relevant to the hand moving forward, we should just treat his Bu Straddle as a temporary change in blind structure...
    we've entered the Twilight Zone where the game in now 1/3/20.
    V calls as does MP...
    there's 60$ in dead money in the pot... we should be raising here.

    but we don't.

    Flop brings a paired board. Two 3s and a K.
    It's checked to us and we bet.
    Hmmm.... I wonder what our range is on this board?
    Could we have :7S::7C: here? Or :AH::5H: ?
    Not likely.
    Based on how Hero approaches the game, he's got a K here nearly 100% of the time.
    Action player calls.
    Now, what's HIS range?
    If I were a betting man, I'd say his range is very 3-heavy.
    We would expect him to raise pre with AK and probably even KQs. As well as any pocket pair including 99.
    So he's either got a weak K like :KC::4C: or he's got 3.

    The turn brings a brick and Hero choose to bet again.
    We've already established ranges and right now we're either way ahead or way behind. If we're way ahead, V has 3 outs to catch up to us... and that's only if he chooses to call another bet from somebody who's obviously got a K... so we're getting all worse hands to fold. And if we're way behind, we're likely to get check/raised.
    The turn should be a check back.
    We cannout get value from a worse hand unless our action player is also a silly calling station that's likely to call us down with Ace high. (I think that species is extinct now)

    Now the river... a :QD:
    it brings in a str8 with JT... but what exactly is JT doing calling a bet on a K-high flop and a bet on the turn with just 4-outs. Highly unlikely.
    V decides to bet into us.
    What does his bet mean?
    Is he betting for value? Or as a bluff?
    And if he's bluffing, would he really bet ⅓ pot? Against a player who's obviously got a K? Is that a new GTO move that's supposed to work?
    Unless V is a big bluffer who doesn't know how to properly size his bets, the river is a fold.
    the latest theorem states that when a player calls several streets of betting/aggression from oop and then suddenly wakes up on the river to find bet, a single pair is never good.
    yes, we've got 2 pair with the 3's... but so does everyone else at the table.
    V is not bluffing and should not have KQ here either.
    He's got 3X that got lucky.

    As played, calling a river bet is spew.
  • Baby_SharkBaby_Shark Red Chipper Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited June 2018
    Thank you everyone for your analysis and comments. I wasn't able to find "Hero raises preflop to $100 with KJo" not because I don't like the play, but because I've never played a game with a $20 blind before. The absolute $value of the play had me playing scared, so I turned it into video poker. I'll focus more on mental preparation for spots like these before playing in this game again.

    ... if anyone wants spoilers, he had 33 for flopped quads

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