Tough spot? Wynn Classic $100K Gtd

Cool_PokerCool_Poker Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
Blinds 100-200 with BB Ante of 200.
Hero 18,500 stack
UTG opens for 500.
Hero utg+1 :Ac :Ah 3bets to 1300.
Mp1 Calls
SB Calls
Orginal raiser UTG Calls.
4 ways to the Flop
:9s :9d :3s
Sb Checks
UTG Checks
Hero Bets 2,200
Mp1 makes it 7,500
SB Check Jams All In for 19,000.
Hero.... Folds.

Thoughts? After thinking the hand through I think my hand plays better as a check on the flop to not get 3bet or jammed on by FD's. I wont reveal the hand results just yet as I don't want anyone's opinion to be results oriented. I would appreciate the feedback!
Thanks -Cool_Poker

Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is an interesting spot. Any player profiles?

    Im fine with your sizing both preflop and on the flop. Vs MP1 im stacking off vs the cold call and just 4 betting all in. Now SB threw a wrench at us and we have a very difficult decision.

    He is repping 9x or a crazy guy with a fd.

    What 9x can he have?
    All As9s, Ac9c, Ah9h, Ad9d are blocked. That leaves Th9h, Tc9c, 9c8c, 9h8h. And 3 combos of 33.

    What other hands cold call a 3bet and then check shove flop? Would he do this with AsTs+ (4 combos). What about TT-QQ (18 combos).

    I guess it's a fold, but it's probably closer than people think given the cold call ranges.

    Also I like cbetting here as you can cbet some AK hands with 1 spade as well to balance.

    I'm pretty sure MP1 doesn't have 9x. Only real concern is SB.
  • Cool_PokerCool_Poker Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Correct I was stacking off against MP. Sb threw me off with the check jam. I had been playing with them maybe an hour and neither had gotten out of line. Somehow SB showed up with :Ks :Kh and MP :As :Qs , Kings hold. That same player ends up busting that level smh.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool_Poker wrote: »
    Correct I was stacking off against MP. Sb threw me off with the check jam. I had been playing with them maybe an hour and neither had gotten out of line. Somehow SB showed up with :Ks :Kh and MP :As :Qs , Kings hold. That same player ends up busting that level smh.

    Not sure how SB doesn't make it 4500 preflop with 15-17 blinds already in the middle. I think SB read the situation correctly, being he is the only one likely to have a 9x or maybe UTG given the price he is getting if he opens 98s or T9s from EP. On LATB some of the pros will cold call s 3bet with a medium to high SC if their 200bb+ at least.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭✭✭
    not sure I understand the bet/fold line.
    what are we scared of?
    in a 3-bet pot, there should be very few 9X hands in our opponents' ranges other than 99. so, we're beat by 1 combo of 99.... and does it really raise or jam on this flop?
    not in my tournies.
    so we can discount 99.
    other than that, 33... 3 combos of that.
    possible, but again... typically slow played.

    the fact that we don't have the :AS: in our hand is actually GOOD for us.
    it makes it very likely that some other player has :AS: :XS: in their hand.
    also GOOD for us is the 9-high flop.
    what hands typically cold-call a 3-bet?
    usually big Aces like AK & AQ and over pairs like JJ+.

    I agree this should have been a check-back.
    Maybe even a check/jam.

    but as played... WHY are we folding the very tippy top of our range here??
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kagey wrote: »
    not sure I understand the bet/fold line.
    what are we scared of?
    in a 3-bet pot, there should be very few 9X hands in our opponents' ranges other than 99. so, we're beat by 1 combo of 99.... and does it really raise or jam on this flop?
    not in my tournies.
    so we can discount 99.
    other than that, 33... 3 combos of that.
    possible, but again... typically slow played.

    the fact that we don't have the :AS: in our hand is actually GOOD for us.
    it makes it very likely that some other player has :AS: :XS: in their hand.
    also GOOD for us is the 9-high flop.
    what hands typically cold-call a 3-bet?
    usually big Aces like AK & AQ and over pairs like JJ+.

    I agree this should have been a check-back.
    Maybe even a check/jam.

    but as played... WHY are we folding the very tippy top of our range here??

    It's cbet, raise, and cold 3bet. I included four combos of 98s and T9s. Stacks are close to 100bb and the 3bet is 6.5bb. Wouldn't be unheard of someone cold calling these SCs for this sizing.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    It's cbet, raise, and cold 3bet. I included four combos of 98s and T9s. Stacks are close to 100bb and the 3bet is 6.5bb. Wouldn't be unheard of someone cold calling these SCs for this sizing.

    I don't know how many $550 tournies you've played in Vegas - but a cold-calling a 3-bet for nearly 10% of your stack in Level 3 with 98s or T9s really is unheard of.
    A 3-bet range is typically JJ+, AK & AQs... with some sprinkles of A5s if it's from a chip leader in position.

    you can't compare bet sizings to bb sizes in cash games... the "accepted" rules for tournies are very, very different. If players were 200bb+ deep, then I'd agree with you.
    As played - they're 90bb deep... 98, 97, T9 & J9 are improbable.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kagey wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    It's cbet, raise, and cold 3bet. I included four combos of 98s and T9s. Stacks are close to 100bb and the 3bet is 6.5bb. Wouldn't be unheard of someone cold calling these SCs for this sizing.

    I don't know how many $550 tournies you've played in Vegas - but a cold-calling a 3-bet for nearly 10% of your stack in Level 3 with 98s or T9s really is unheard of.
    A 3-bet range is typically JJ+, AK & AQs... with some sprinkles of A5s if it's from a chip leader in position.

    you can't compare bet sizings to bb sizes in cash games... the "accepted" rules for tournies are very, very different. If players were 200bb+ deep, then I'd agree with you.
    As played - they're 90bb deep... 98, 97, T9 & J9 are improbable.

    If 98s and T9s are never in their range than I agree calling off here 100%. We ruled out A9s already and no one cold 3 bets quads.

    I looked at it as a regular tourney filled with donks and figured some loose ranges being pretty early in the tourney still. Even with 98s and T9s I still figured it would be close either way.
  • Wiki_LeaksWiki_Leaks Red Chipper Posts: 546 ✭✭✭
    Cmon, you didnt get on a plane, fly to vegas, check into your hotel and reg a wynn tourney just to fold aces did you? :)

    Who says one of/both players arent overvaluing TT-KK and FD, which represent a higher percentage of ranges than his 9x do. Preflop, Mp cold calls a 3b. his range is likely suited broadways, pairs and AK. He few combinations of 9x or houses, and if he does have these, i believe he flats flop at some reasonable frequency to trap remaining players. Sb likely has AKss, AQss, and pairs. His raise appears super nutted, but he can easily overvalue overpairs, which to me make up a large portion of his range here. and again, if he has 9x or 33 I think we have to believe he flats those pretty often facing a flop bet and raise.

    You run into 9x sometimes, but youre in early levels of a low stakes mtt. Im sure you have witnessed enough epic dust offs in these events to know you cant fold here. Its scary but i think i put all my chips in here, understanding that some goofball might have 9x, but if he can have 9x he will also have more hands youre crushing.

  • Ronnie KwokRonnie Kwok Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
    I tend to agree with your fold unlike most of the ppl here suggest that you should stack off. I believe that your 3b sizing pre is too small when this deep against the utg opening range. If you raised to 2k pre, the cold call range will condense immensely. But since you 3b to a normal amount when we are this deep, that meant you don't want to stack off with AA's. So, wider ranges will be there, and you don't need to risk your tourney life with such a marginal spot. I understand this is rebuy tourney, but if you don't care about the money, then again, you should raise bigger like you would in the cash game.

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