Hand Review - ATs, 3bet, oop, flop TP.

stumhstumh Red Chipper Posts: 83 ✭✭
In this hand, the big blind was 3-betting alot, and additionally I am just not comfortable flatting from the small blind in general.

The I think the villiain might view me as being quite aggressive. I don't think he has any of the big diamond draws. Maybe his flop call includes some nut flush draws. I assume he has AQ floating here given my turn bet.

His F3 is 70, so not sure if I can give him 55 and 66.

Basically I struggling to put him on a range on the turn.

TIA.

888 Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 96.4 BB (VPIP: 30.71, PFR: 25.20, 3Bet Preflop: 12.77, Hands: 131)
CO: 104.98 BB (VPIP: 23.57, PFR: 19.11, 3Bet Preflop: 1.72, Hands: 166)
BTN: 156.8 BB (VPIP: 20.42, PFR: 15.49, 3Bet Preflop: 3.95, Hands: 446)
Hero (SB): 127.5 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has :AS::TS:

CO raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, CO calls 6 BB

Flop: (19 BB, 2 players) :TD::6D::5H:
Hero bets 6 BB, CO calls 6 BB

Turn: (31 BB, 2 players) :QC:
Hero ???

Finally, my flop bet is pretty standard across my entire range.

Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't see a problem. His fold to 3bet is pretty high at 70, so I don't mind your sizing. Would usually go 11-12bb. Flop bet being about 1\3 is pretty standard.

    Turn I would like go about 1\3 again up to half pot. Check calling is fine, but would like to get value from KT, JT, T9 being all suited, some flush draws, maybe sticky 77-99 hands.
  • stumhstumh Red Chipper Posts: 83 ✭✭
    OK:


    Turn: (31 BB, 2 players) :QC:
    Hero bets 18 BB, CO raises to 46 BB

    Hero
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    stumh wrote: »
    OK:


    Turn: (31 BB, 2 players) :QC:
    Hero bets 18 BB, CO raises to 46 BB

    Hero

    Now it's just a simple fold. Doesn't mean every hand your going to get raised off your hand. He can have some QdJd+, 55, 66, TT, QTs, type hands. It's unlikely a bluff for someone to put in half their stack and risk be shoved on. Maybe he got a lucky turn card for 20 combos of his range or maybe the turn card saved you and villain slow played a set. Take a 33bb loss overall and move onto the next hand.
  • stumhstumh Red Chipper Posts: 83 ✭✭
    OK thanks - so why are we betting the turn?
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    Why is your cbet 32% the pot and your turn bet over 58% of the pot?

    Those two numbers alone look to me like you're trying to buy your way out of something. If you continue to bet 1/3 the pot on the turn, then your range is wider -- and that includes not only the lower end but also the upper end of your range.

    Put another way: Say that you had QQ or TT. Would you jump your turn bet up almost twice the percentage of the pot from the flop bet? You'd likely stay around the 30%-40% mark. By jumping it up, it looks like you're not at the top of your range -- and that opens up the possibility of V applying pressure to you.
  • stumhstumh Red Chipper Posts: 83 ✭✭
    I would bump it up with my hole range. If that’s a leak it’s something I need to work on, but yeah of had a set I’d make this bet also. He can’t call with a draw vs this bet and it has greater fold equity when I’m bluffing. Obviously with this type of hands it’s gross. I’m wondering if turn was a check. But then I’m just guessing if he’s bets.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    stumh wrote: »
    I would bump it up with my hole range. If that’s a leak it’s something I need to work on, but yeah of had a set I’d make this bet also. He can’t call with a draw vs this bet and it has greater fold equity when I’m bluffing. Obviously with this type of hands it’s gross. I’m wondering if turn was a check. But then I’m just guessing if he’s bets.

    Thinking out loud:

    You 3bet pre-flop and then cbet. Those actions would start to fold out some of V's weaker part of his range. You then bet big on the turn (relative to flop): won't only the higher portion of V's range continue? Yes, you fold out some of the lower end, but that leaves a range that it is getting faaaar more difficult to fold out on the river (except a busted flush draw, which you don't need to fold out to beat). By keeping the turn bet smaller, you actually keep in more of the bottom part of V's ever-narrowing range, giving you both more fold equity on the river and also showdown value with your hand.

    Again, thinking out loud...
  • stumhstumh Red Chipper Posts: 83 ✭✭
    Also thinking out loud: that’s not a balanced strategy. Essentially we are just betting the strength of our hand. This card is actually better for my range than his since I c-bet the flop with more queens than he floats with.

    If we always bet small on this turn we reduce our fold equity, we get less value with big hands, and we allow draws to get a good price. Against some players we may also induce bluffs and be forced to call with a wider part of our range. Or fold.

    But I also agree that betting here narrows his range to hands that are beating us. I found it a frustrating hand to play but it’s a situation that is common so I just want to understand a good thought process for the turn.

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