Why are there so many idiots playing mid to "high" stakes online?

DanielGDanielG Caribbean NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 13 ✭✭
edited July 2018 in General Concepts
Hi there,

Just a question. I have been seeing so many idiotfish online - especially on Pokerstars - lately in the mid to high stakes cash games as well as tournaments.

I was wondering why people buy in for $20 to $500 tournaments just to get it all in preflop as quickly as possible with hands like A7o, K5o or other hands that don't have much equity when called (as they are mostly only going to get called by better) for over more than 50 to a 100 BB. Is it that they think because there is a 2.25x open preflop someone probably has a terrible hand?

Then there is the question about open sizes. A lot of players open up for rediculous and weird sizes. (I can get behind the stategy of limping with a strong hand hoping to get raised and than backraise, however I almost never openlimp / call limps myself, except if I know what the players might do behind me based on previous hands). A lot of players have so many bet sizing tells.

Next up, I see a lot preflop all-ins with AKo and AQo, KQo, KJo, even A7o, K9o and so on. Note: pocket dueces has about 53% (or more) equity against these hands. What are these players thinking? Oh I have a nice looking hand, lets go all in because I don't know what to do if I miss?

Oh, one more: I also see people betting stupidly big sometimes when checked to. I myself always check to the preflop raiser, no matter how strong or weak my hand. Do these people instantly assume I have a weak hand because I checked?

Cheers and happy grinding!

Daniel

Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #1 you should appreciate your customers a bit more.

    #2 big bets are meant to be polarizing, so you don't know if their bluffing or value betting.

    #3 all in preflop depending on # of blinds some of those hands maybe standard. At 50-100bb just say thank you. Hopefully your crushing.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    okay... now that we know YOUR point of view...

    what if....
    they weren't fish, but instead playing some type of advanced strategy?
    what if....
    they had a plan and were executing it to a tee?

    I challange you to go back and examine who's doing what and what kind of results have they gotten. While it's most likely that these players could be fishy, what if they're not?
    If you take the time to reverse-engineer their strategy, you might find a better way to play and win at your stakes....

    GL
  • DanielGDanielG Caribbean NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Could all be very well and good, but I see way too many light calls and terrible raises. I see that (semi-) bluffing is a big part of poker (preflop, as well as postflop). But some players bluff way too much, and others way too little / easy to sniff out. In these games it is so easy to sniff out who is who, especially if you see their hand at showdown (and mostly losing because they were either bluffing to much, or valuecutting themself by betting way too small)

    Also, some players (not too many) play nearly all hands first in, or when there is a small raise. I get that you can squeeze and apply pressure, especially near the bubble. But some times it's just stupid with a hand like Q2o on a offuit not-connected A Q 7 3 x board for example.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭✭
    You expect expert play in donkaments?
  • DanielGDanielG Caribbean NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Nah wouldn't call myself an expert, nor expect expert play in these games. But these people have a brain, right? I have a pretty decent sense of what is going on. Have crushed some decently sized tournaments and my overall graph is still climbing.

    Of course I also sometimes lose a lot of money due to a big suckout or wrong read/call, but overall my bankroll is steadily rising :-)
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    "I'm a strong tournament player. My goal isn't to be in the money; my goal is to finish in the top 10% (maybe 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, depending on how many get paid out) of the money winners.

    "I'm also great at applying pressure when I have a bigger stack than my opponents. And losing $20, $100, or even $500 is only a small part of my bankroll. I'm playing these tourneys for the homerun.

    "I can spend the first hour-and-a-half of a tourney playing tightly, picking my spots, and grinding up a stack. Or I can just shove with any ace, pair, or big broadway card where I have, at worst, 40% equity against many other starting hands. Sure, I'll lose quite a bit. But, the additional +EV of playing 'smart' poker isn't worth my time.

    "If I double up -- or even triple up!! -- on the first hand, then I'm in great shape to press that edge and make some real money. I can apply pressure with the big stack with high-equity and/or made hands and get paid off given my first-hand image.

    "If I lose, well, I don't care about losing the buy-in, and I'm saving tons of time (maybe enough to enter the next tourney starting in five minutes...)."

    I highly doubt that this is most people's thought-process or that it reflects their play. But, @Austin and @kagey are both correct.

    For those who don't care about the buy-in and are looking for a quick hit, let 'em, as @Austin explains. They're printing you money. If you have a good hand and win, great! If you fold and they double up, great -- you can get their money later!

    For those who DO have a reason for their seeming "madness", as @kagey reminds us, then it is far better to give them some credit, understand their motivation and behavior, and then figure out how to outplay them. Some of these "idiotfish" might actually be pretty damn smart...
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a real hand lol

    $25/50 HU, $7600ish effective.

    Idiotfish raises HU, aggrofish 3-bets, Idiotfish calls.
    Jc7s2s ($1040 pot)
    Aggro bets half pot, Idiot raises to $1400, aggro raises to $2200, Idiot calls.
    Ad ($5560)
    Aggro bets $850, Idiot calls.
    Kh ($7200)
    Aggro bets $3800 all-in, Idiot calls.

    Idiot shows Qc5c and wins
    Aggro shows 4s6d

    Huge fish, right? :D

    Super user? Put the aggro donk bettor on 98 or T9 and play Q high like the nuts.

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