A-high flush on non-paired board vs. river raise from tightest player

moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
1/3, $300. Saturday night around 11PM.

Hero is playing his usual game -- shown some winners, got caught bluffing once, tends to bet and raise more than most and get grumbling folds ("I know you're full of it, but I can't call.").

Villain is someone that I have played with just a handful of times. He raises pre-flop with QQ+, occasionally a little wider in position. Otherwise, he limp-calls pre-flop AK, AQ, mid-to-high suited connectors (I haven't seen him have low suited connectors, but it's possible), many other pocket pairs, and occasionally a broadway hand or something random multi-way when closing action. He plays fit-or-fold post-flop, and I have never seen him raise or go all-in without an absolute monster.

At the start of this hand, V has $615, and Hero barely has him covered (Hero has been at the table about 90 minutes.)

V: UTG+1 limps.
MP1 limps.
CO limps.
Hero: BUT :As :4s raises to $25.
Standard for me here.

V calls.

Flop ($60): :Ks :Ts :6h
V checks.
Hero bets $35.
Betting here fits my profile. I've gotten a lot folds with cbets so far and haven't been really challenged or punished yet. In this specific hand, V would fold with most of his range, making this a good opportunity to cbet and try to take down the pot. And I'm in great shape if I get called or raised.

V calls.
Probable hands: Flush draw, set, KT.

Turn ($130): :9s
V checks.
Hero bets $75.
Bam! Given V's probably flop-calling range, I think that I can get a street of value here from most of his hands.

V calls.

River ($280): :2d
V checks.
Hero bets $205.
I figured V is likely to call or fold regardless of whether I bet $100 or $180 with V's calling range. I settled on a little bit more than what I thought that V would certainly call down with. $170 or $180 might have been wiser, but I also wanted to see how he'd react to a little more pressure than he was likely comfortable with.

V shoves for $275 more.
My thought process: "Balls!! V doesn't have the ace-high flush or king-high flush (obviously). Is there any hand that V would do this with besides QsJs? I suppose that he COULD be trying to steal a pot using his image and playing of his perception of my image, but would he really do that often enough here to justify calling? I know that it's $275 to win $760, but I don't think that I can do it..."

What would you do here?? (Any feedback on other parts of the hand welcome, too!)


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭✭
    On river: you HAVE to call. As you're holding the 2nd nuts. There are plenty of other combos to fold (maybe more than my MDF bc of V's profile), but 2nd nuts? Never. So be it if he has the only one combo beating nut flush.

    But then the question is: was it a good idea to bet at all? I can see the turn bet (against KT, TT, 66, QJ), but then, will these combos go for a last street?

    Finally, I'm no big fan of your bet sizing and action. Why not betting flop smaller (with a wide range) if V fold too much? Half pot seem too big to me.
    On the contrary, once he shows interest, we might have 1 street to go more. But couldn't we size bigger on turn ? Or couldn't we check turn and bet (or call) any river ? How would we take the most money from KT or 66 on such board? Or from the widest range ?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pre flop $25 over 3 limps :-)

    Flop I think 35 is ok, but might size up to $45 some times given the range of hands your repping as the PFR, being vulnerable to a lot of draws i.e if you had AK here.

    Turn I given some draws and two pair come in, I would size down to about 1\3 pot or possible even check back some times since realistically most of your range will only have 2-3 combos of flushes, at least in your perceived preflop raising range on this texture.

    River again being you block the ace high flush and villains image, I like a smaller bet for value. It will be hard for villain to call with a hand like KxQs that might feel sticky vs your aggro image. I like a bet of like $130 just under half pot here.

    Now villain raises! Looks like you ran into straight flush. I'm probably only person on this forum who has folded nf vs one possible straight flush. Action was much different and was facing a 5x pot shove, but general advice I got was I gotta pay it off. I ended up folding and guy called me a chicken shit, so I think he had it, but if your going to lose any sleep over it, better mentally just to pay the person off.

    Utg1 shouldn't have very many low SCs and given image probably does not shove a hand like 8s7s for value. I realistically only see him having QsJs here, but given the price I can't find a fold. Js9s in his range? Suicide bluff with KxQs?

    Time to reload and say nice hand.
  • SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 744 ✭✭✭
    "Pay that man his money"

    -John Malkovich
  • PapaGiorgioPapaGiorgio Red Chipper Posts: 63 ✭✭
    Is it possible that V is fed up with your antics and check-raised with QJo or trips? You said he only ever raised/shoved with absolute monsters, but tilt/frustration with an aggressive player might alter his play. I think this is a call given the lines taken. Only 1 combo beats you.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for your replies, everyone!

    It seems like there are a couple of differing suggestions of my sizing all the way through, some for higher, some for lower, some for checking. I'll take away that this is a board that can played differently and profitably under different circumstances.

    As for calling or folding, that's four for calling (with @Austin saying that he would fold).
    I tanked. I then said, "I think that you've got queen-jack of spades." No reaction. Ultimately, I couldn't do it. I just can't put him on enough frustration to make a play or cajones to make a play. I folded.

    Before releasing his cards, V hesitated, looked at me again, and then finally slowly slid his cards to the dealer. I don't consider him an actor at the table, so I'm even more confident that I made the right fold, pot odds be damned.

    Thanks again, everyone!
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The world will never know.... Pay that man $10 to show his hand.
  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 265 ✭✭✭
    Was there a promo running for tabling a straight flush at the time? If so, it's rather telling that he did not show.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    Roblivion wrote: »
    Was there a promo running for tabling a straight flush at the time? If so, it's rather telling that he did not show.

    Great question. No promo.

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