Dynamic Flop as Preflop Raiser--play it slow or fast?

OutlierOutlier Red Chipper Posts: 158 ✭✭
$1/2 at River Spirit Casino in OK

Button straddles to $5, action starts in small blind
SB ($265) completes straddle
BB ($400) completes straddle
UTG Hero ($600) :Ad :Td raise to $20
Button ($450) calls $20
SB calls
BB calls

Flop ($80) :Ks :Jc :9d
SB checks
BB checks
Hero bets $50
Button folds
SB calls
BB folds

Turn ($180) :Ks :Jc :9d :8d
SB checks
Hero?

The first question is actually "bet flop or check?". The game was playing quite loosely and players were limp-calling a wide range. The button and BB especially were playing close to 50% of hands; SB was more snug but by no means tight. I thought that my flop bet would rarely get through, but would narrow the field and allow me to apply a lot of pressure on the turn since my opponents will hit this board frequently, but not hard. Having the backdoor flush draw and nut blocker also led me to bet.

When I pick up the nut flush draw on the turn, I decide to follow through with my plan and put max pressure on my opponent by putting him in. Would you take this "play big pot" approach or proceed more cautiously multi-way?

Comments

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭✭
    1. I don't mind a cbet on this board heads-up. But, multi-way, it's tough... you don't have a ton of equity here. I think that I'd check.

    2. As played on the turn, given BB's remaining stack, it's a check or shove, as you noted. Will BB ever fold here? If there is some fold equity, then a shove makes sense. If V is never (or is rarely) folding, then I'm not shoving.

    Finally, as an aside, I'd likely raise pre-flop to more than $20.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stacks are not very deep given the straddle, so I think $20 (4bb) is fine preflop.

    Flop you talk about having a gutter and bdfd, so your inclined to bet, but you never consider callers range. Based on callers range im more inclined to check here.

    On the turn it depends if villain is capable of folding J10, KT, T9s, KQ, QJ, also consider flush coming in wil give him some flush combos as well. Does he slow play KJ, or J9 hands?

    I might take a free card twice here if possible.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭✭
    Obviously, I agree with @Austin's post-flop analysis.

    As for pre-flop, we're probably quibbling. I'd only raise higher because, when short-stacked, I want to apply full pressure to my opponent on the flop. Since most hands miss the flop, I can cbet/shove against a short-stack with most of my hands profitably. If it's a short-stacked player who tends to call lightly (i.e., with any equity), then I can just shove my top-pair+ hands profitably.
  • OutlierOutlier Red Chipper Posts: 158 ✭✭
    I didn't specify the villains' range explicitly but I stated in the OP that opponents "will hit this board frequently, but not hard." Button and BB were playing around 50% hands or more. Button straddler was especially wide and I would say is weighted toward smaller cards like 74s, 65o, 76o, etc. BB could have any suited kings or queens along with unsuited broadways; he could even have something like Q8, J8, J7s, etc. Obviously by this analysis all three opponents have all combos of QT, but that's where I thought my ten blocker played a significant role.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
    Preflop I think is fine....honestly probably make it 25 only because its a pot size bet and I rarely bet much less then pot..

    Don't hate the flop bet, but lean slightly more to checking here. In mulit way pots players tend to play straight forward...if they checked to me on the turn...I think a delayed C-bet has higher EV...

    as played I not sure I can get enough folds to make shoving the turn a higher ev line then checking back....If one of the $400 stacks had called, I think a turn bet and river shove would likely be the highest EV play. (though high variance with not much more ev then checking back the turn....)

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