Biggest a**hole move that I've ever seen at a live game...

moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
I was at the table but not in the hand. 1/3.

Player A has around $1,200 in front of him, and Player B has around $1,600. It has been a big action table, and these guys have been using their stacks pretty well against everyone else -- and pushing leverage against each other. Throughout the night, lots of great banter, but nothing that would indicate any hostility. Honestly, just a great table for poker.

Then this hand happened: Wet flop, multi-way, some checks, some bets, some raises. Only Player A and Player B are still alive on the river. The pot is around $1,500, and Player A checks. Player B shoves, and Player A tanks and finally calls for his remaining $500 or so. Player B then says, "You're good" and pushes his cards face down across the line. Player A then pushes his cards face down across the line.

The dealer then grabs Player A's cards and puts them into the muck, at which point Player B immediately retrieves his two cards -- not yet mucked!! -- and turns them over, saying "I'm the only player with live cards, so I win the pot."

Technically, he's right. The dealer ships him the pot. Player B then says light-heartedly (honestly, IMO, thinking that this was all part of the ongoing friendly banter), "Sorry, man!" and gives Player A $50 in red chips. Player A -- usually one of the most respectful guys there -- then took the ten red chips, threw them at Player B's face, and stormed out.

Wow. Just wow.
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Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭✭
    WTF ? Player B mucked first, so he lost the pot. Only player A remained. And even if dealer didn't take B's cards (yet), they crossed the line: this hand was dead.

    I understand the rage of A - even if he should not have let his cards go before getting the chips to avoid any confusion(*) - but he should have called the floor. The pot was his as soon as B mucked and his was the only remaining player in game.


    (*) for that I always lay my cards on the line and let them fully cross only when I get the chips
  • Dean MDean M Red Chipper Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »

    (*) for that I always lay my cards on the line and let them fully cross only when I get the chips

    This... Never release your cards until the chips have been shoved your way.
  • keasbeykeasbey Red Chipper Posts: 91 ✭✭
    Splitsuit said it best. your cards are your receipt for the pot, so hold onto them!
  • Stomper13Stomper13 Red Chipper Posts: 80 ✭✭
    Wtf not cool at all.
  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Even if it's a $20 pot, I don't let my cards go until the dealer pushes the pot my way.
  • GGECKOGGECKO Washington, D.C.Red Chipper Posts: 111 ✭✭✭
    Poker is like a boxing match. What is the last thing the referee says to the boxers before the match begins?

    "Protect yourselves at all times"
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Players job to hold onto the cards, but I think dealer can be written up for this. Dealer incorrectly mucked the hands out of order and other player should be rewarded the pot.

    I've pulled my cards back a few times, but I made it clear I wasn't angling by verbally folding first. Just wanted to double check my suites or whatever it was at the time. Also confirmed this with the floor before as well. If your cards haven't hit the muck, but you said fold, your hand is dead.

    Definitely call the floor over for a ruling. Pull all the chips from the pot off the table, check the camera, and reward player A the pot most likely.
  • Aran Whelan ByrneAran Whelan Byrne Red Chipper Posts: 25 ✭✭
    Can't believe player A wouldn't call the floor. Definitely rule in his favour.

    I'd never return to that casino either way for the dealer awarding player B the pot. That's a joke of a decision.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, this was all f*cked up.

    First of all, Player B never said, "Fold". And, technically, you can retrieve your cards up until they hit the muck. So, his cards were live.

    Second of all, yes, the dealer should have taken Player B's cards first. Still,...

    There remains a burden of responsibility on Player for holding onto his cards. (To his credit, he didn't take his anger out on the dealer.)

    Finally, yes, floor was called over. But, technically, Player A's cards were mucked and Player B's weren't. That bottom line is 100% clear. It's not as through both hands were turned over and the dealer pushed the pot the wrong way (which I've seen happen and where I've seen them hold the chips aside until it gets reviewed -- and corrected -- by the cameras). Again, to Player A's credit, he didn't get pissed at the floor either.


    All that being said, despite the errors on the dealer's and on Player A's parts, just 100% douche-baggery. Still just shocking by Player B.
  • Ruxton_AtheistRuxton_Atheist Red Chipper Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    Table your hand. Problem solved.
  • TheGrindersCookbookTheGrindersCookbook Merrimack, NHRed Chipper Posts: 68 ✭✭
    Something very similar to this happened to me earlier in the year. I was on the losing end of it.

    There was a guy playing who was just at the table with his buddy. I was at my local spot and didnt recognize either so assuming just a random guy looking to play cards for the day. I was right. This guy bought in about $200 and was playing ... well just not good cards. I got involved in a pot with him where im pretty sure he put me on a bluff because I showed one earlier in the session.

    Regardless, in this particular hand, I had top pair (kings) and a decent kicker. Pot was small, maybe $30. We get to showdown, and I say "I have Kings" and he said "you're good". So i take my cards and flip the King up, and keep the kicker face down. He tosses his cards in the center.

    The dealer says, because my put my second card face down, it is not a live hand anymore. For that reason, he gave the pot to the other guy. The guy was such an a55 about it. He told me I 'should know the rules' and 'rules are rules.

    Fast forward to about 30 min later when he is ready to leave, still sitting at about $150 in front of him. He gets into a hand and shoves pre-flop with some mediocre JK or QJ hand and loses all of it to another guy. Didnt care about the money at all. I was so mad. He made a huge deal about my $30 pot but turned around and shipped $150 to another player because he wanted to leave... unreal

    Ive seen the dealer there since then and turns out they used this situation as a training for other dealers lol. The room consensus was that he should have given me the opportunity to turn that other card over before pullling my cards away and shipping to the other guy.
  • Ruxton_AtheistRuxton_Atheist Red Chipper Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Jesse Snow wrote: »
    Something very similar to this happened to me earlier in the year. I was on the losing end of it.

    There was a guy playing who was just at the table with his buddy. I was at my local spot and didnt recognize either so assuming just a random guy looking to play cards for the day. I was right. This guy bought in about $200 and was playing ... well just not good cards. I got involved in a pot with him where im pretty sure he put me on a bluff because I showed one earlier in the session.

    Regardless, in this particular hand, I had top pair (kings) and a decent kicker. Pot was small, maybe $30. We get to showdown, and I say "I have Kings" and he said "you're good". So i take my cards and flip the King up, and keep the kicker face down. He tosses his cards in the center.

    The dealer says, because my put my second card face down, it is not a live hand anymore. For that reason, he gave the pot to the other guy. The guy was such an a55 about it. He told me I 'should know the rules' and 'rules are rules.

    Fast forward to about 30 min later when he is ready to leave, still sitting at about $150 in front of him. He gets into a hand and shoves pre-flop with some mediocre JK or QJ hand and loses all of it to another guy. Didnt care about the money at all. I was so mad. He made a huge deal about my $30 pot but turned around and shipped $150 to another player because he wanted to leave... unreal

    Ive seen the dealer there since then and turns out they used this situation as a training for other dealers lol. The room consensus was that he should have given me the opportunity to turn that other card over before pullling my cards away and shipping to the other guy.

    http://redchippoker.com/showdown-mechanics-live-poker-podcast/

    Table. Your. Hand.
  • CactusCardsCactusCards ArizonaRed Chipper Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Never, Never, Never put your cards in the middle without the chips in front of you. Hull's advice is solid -I always table my cards in this situation. I don't care if people think I suck, just table your hand and don't leave things up to interpretation.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had a small situation where I ran a small triple barrel bluff putting person on a FD, but she actually had top pair. On the river she checked, I bet, and she called. I said "good call I don't have anything" but she didn't turn over her hand. I tabled my hand because I wanted to see what she called with despite having to show my bluff. I believe I adjust better by seeing their cards than having to show my own.

    She then saw I had nothing and pushed her cards forward face down (LoL). The dealer grabbed her cards and began to push me the pot, she said "wait, I won the pot." The dealer explained, "but you didn't table your hand. You have to show your hand to win." At this point the dealer still had her hand under her hand and had touched the muck yet. The dealer said, "I can call the floor if you want." I spoke up and said no need to call the floor just let her table her hand. Floor is going to say the same thing anyways.

    I am not going to be a douche bag over a $100 and ruin a "fun player's" experience where they don't like playing the game any more. Can easily get the money back later from them. It's just good Karma despite the financial loss of the hand.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Like other have said, I never release my cards till the dealer ships me the pot. I once checked down a hand to the river against a very nice terrible player. On the river I hit may ace, and grabbed chips, and he table his K high face up. so I put my chips back and mucked my hand.

    The dealer said I had never showed my hand so he gave the pot to the other player. It was a small pot and I could not remember at the time that I had moved to bet...and the player gave me half the $22 pot. But ever since then I never surrender my cards before the pot is shoved my way.

    Technically it is up to players to protect there hand. l played one game where the a new felt had be enjust put on. Every time I nudged my cards forward they flew into the guys hand across the table. He bitched and I apologized and said I would be more careful. About 20 minutes later, I was not thinking and flicked my cards and they flew across the table again into his hand. He started bitching a lot and I apologized again.

    One of the guys who know me and know I'm very laid back ask what the commotion was about , I said It was my fault, and it was ok. At which point the guy went into a lecture that yes it was may fault and I would have to make up the pot blah blah blah, I called the floor and had them explain to him that it was up to him to protect his cards and they gave him a warning.
  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭✭
    This entire thread is giving me anxiety.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    Roblivion wrote: »
    This entire thread is giving me anxiety.

    Woohoo! First time I've seen you on tilt! :)
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what I don't understand is how dealer grabs Player A's cards as soon as they are mucked but doesn't do the same when Player B mucked first!
  • RCP Coach - Fausto ValdezRCP Coach - Fausto Valdez RCP Coach Posts: 829 ✭✭✭✭
    wow ....
    COACHING NOW AVAILABLE HERE
  • Albert AAlbert A Red Chipper Posts: 95 ✭✭
    Correction: Fold or show both cards:)
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭✭
    Title of thread is a bit overstated IMO.

    I have seen much worse - ie one player chases another around the poker table with a taser, yelling/screaming matches turned into fights, refusal to pay bet leading to one player getting bounced but keeping the chips, sitting next to hashtagking for 5 hours.....
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kenaces wrote: »
    Title of thread is a bit overstated IMO.

    I have seen much worse - ie one player chases another around the poker table with a taser, yelling/screaming matches turned into fights, refusal to pay bet leading to one player getting bounced but keeping the chips, sitting next to hashtagking for 5 hours.....

    I always thought security should be allowed to taser players that are out of line or about to fight. It would stop a lot of the non-sense. I have seen the one in bold before as well.

    Went all in - guy throws a chip and says call - sees he loses and doesn't want to pay "I was only calling $5" He knew guy was all in as well and tanked for a good 45 seconds before calling, so wasn't like he had ear phones on and didn't hear the guy or get a chip count lol. Casino kicked him out. Never saw him again.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    One time someone mucked their cards and they slid into my hand which was covering my cards. The dealer gave me a pseudo warning about protecting my cards. We had a small convo there because I had no idea if his cards touched mine my hand would be mucked. Live and learn I guess.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    kenaces wrote: »
    Title of thread is a bit overstated IMO.

    Huh??? How is it overstated? This was in fact the biggest a**hole move that I have seen at a live game. I didn't say that it was the biggest a**hole move ever... Just what I've seen.
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭✭
    Just felt like meh - I have seen sooo many worse things but I have been playing 13 years and logged lots of hours in underground games too.

    Please don't take anything I say personally as I am just a random guy on the interwebs typing the first thing that comes into my brain :)
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Positive side: I flopped a straight and raised person's cbet followed through barreling turn and river. On the river I bet $145 but player instantly said call and didn't see the white $100 chip on top. I elected to charge only $75 despite clearly placing white chip on top. Other players mistake but also a reg, decided to give him a break and dealer told him to be more careful next time as all verbal "call" are binding. I think this is good Karma for me in the future.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    kenaces wrote: »
    Just felt like meh - I have seen sooo many worse things but I have been playing 13 years and logged lots of hours in underground games too.

    Please don't take anything I say personally as I am just a random guy on the interwebs typing the first thing that comes into my brain :)

    All good. I wasn't offended, just confused. (Though confusing me isn't that great an achievement in and of itself... :) ).

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