Playing top set

AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
currently 6 handed
UTG ($400) opens $20
MP folds
CO ($450) calls $20
BTN calls $20
SB folds
Hero BB (covers) :TC: :TH: calls $20

*I know easy squeeze spot for value. UTG is a tag player who I am a good deal of respect for. I think he is capable of 4 bet all in semi light, but mostly JJ+ against me and AK.

Flop ($80) :TS: :9S: :2C:
Hero bets $40
UTG calls
Co calls
BTN folds
Turn ($200) :TS: :9S: :2C: :QH:
Hero bets $75
UTG ($340) calls $75
CO ($390) calls $75
River ($425) :TS: :9S: :2C: :QH: :AH:
Hero ($1,000) checks
UTG ($265) ?
CO ($315) ?

*before I say what happens my thoughts on this river was it is a good card for them if they have a hand like :AS: :XS: and they can bet... I played my hand some what weak as I thought my flop donk bet would get UTG to raise all his strong hands and we can just get stacks in on the flop. I don't think an over pair is flat calling my flop bet on this texture. On the turn I bet small because again this card helps their range more than mine in terms of QJ, AQ, KQ, KJ, J10, QsXs etc. I thought they would raise at some frequency of the time. On the river I think if I bet I can still get called by Ax, but I don't think they call a shove with just a naked ace, so I wanted to let them bet and I can raise. I think they are both also capable of bluffing a hand like 87s and the ace is a good bluff card for their range.
UTG checked back :TD: :9D: and not sure what CO had after he checked back as well. I feel like I lost a ton of value here. I led flop because I figured it looked weak vs UTG range. I am very surprised he didn't raise with top 2 pair on the flop. A bit of a bad beat for me.... Maybe he thought CO would raise? Everyone just playing weak I guess....

Comments

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    [I didn't read the spoiler.]

    May I hazard a guess? Was this hand long into a session? Were you a little tired?

    I ask because I often find that, as my A-game is waning, I tend to get more passive and/or overly reliant on deviations. I might also be waaaaaaay off here...

    1) Pre-flop:
    Austin wrote: »
    *I know easy squeeze spot for value. UTG is a tag player who I am a good deal of respect for. I think he is capable of 4 bet all in semi light, but mostly JJ+ against me and AK.

    All the more reason to raise!! There's a looot of money in the pot, and calling puts you out-of-position in a multi-way pot. Ugh. If UTG re-shoves, then you have an easy and exploitative fold. Otherwise, you could get caught getting it all in (at least covering V's all in) with a hand that can't be folded but also might not likely be ahead. I'd much rather put in $100 now and know where I am then call here, call a street or two, and still be guessing.

    2) The flop: Why did you lead out? With all those players to act behind you, someone almost assuredly will bet. A check-raise on a wet board like this seems ideal.

    3) The river: As played, why did you check the river? If either V did have AKs, then that player would absolutely call your triple-barrel. In addition, anyone thinking that you were betting two spades all the way through would call you, as well.

    Put it this way: Each V is more likely to have a bluff-catcher that would call your river bet than a miss that would try to bluff into a three-way pot. I wouldn't be relying on an unlikely river stab that would, at most, get you as much as a far more likely call of your river bet would.

    [Now I read the spoiler.]
  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭✭
    Seems like a great run out to go for three streets. Although you have top set, plenty of draws available on the flop. Turn connects with several natural floats that Villain is expected to have. River connects with Ax spade draws. I'm not slowing down here when they flat your turn bet as I suspect they're still capped.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    May I hazard a guess? Was this hand long into a session? Were you a little tired?

    Was between my 7th-8th hour, longer than my normal 6hr session.

    I remember during the hand I couldn't math well! Some reason on the turn I didn't want to take too long on my actions but didn't know what the pot was.

    I agree my actions were weak / passive on all streets and lots of value left on the table. The guy UTG said if I had bet over 100 on the river he would have folded. Guess he realized I don't have worse on the river than his holding. $100 is really small and he would be getting like 5:1. I would likely bet something around $150 to stay consistent with my sizing around 1\3 turn and river.

    Also I will note I like donk bets with top sets on some what cordinated boards and check raises with lower sets as they unblock TP. I do think my donk bet should have been less around $30 to induce a bit more or check raise. Vs unknown players I am definitely check raising and barreling off. Just thought donk bet was kinda sexy vs a competent player.
  • VegaVega Red Chipper Posts: 31 ✭✭
    - I also haven't looked at the spoiler yet. -

    I think the donk bet is fine sometimes. You went in with a plan, mixing things up a little shows you can be tricky and unpredictable - especially if you think a lot of players would see the bet as weak. I don't see how the flop isn't raised with an AsXs hand.

    The river check is the weirdest for me. With a $400 pot, and they have at max $300 behind, I am not sure you can fold to a bet. Made hands should have shown aggression on the turn - straights should want to protect a little from flush draws. I would have stuck with the same betting scheme you came up with for the flop and turn. Half-pot bet for thin value.
  • EatRunPokerEatRunPoker NY, NYRed Chipper Posts: 91 ✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Yeah, that's very odd that utg didn't raise flop on such a wet board. I like check raising this flop as a way to balance your check raise range with value and not just big draws. But that said donking is also good here some of the time if you have a donk range (I probably do not have a donking range on these flops--I probably check raise a lot though JQ J8 67s 78s 910, 99, 1010, etc). I think probably just jam river, but also there is merit to checking as you look super weak now and the runout favors some of the natural floats. This keeps some strong hands in your donk, donk, check range.

    I think :As :Xs checks back though, that's all I disagree with. But also not calling a shove, so a small bet of $120 probably gets a crying call from those hands. I would just jam though and hope to get value from two pair hands and heroing players who are convinced you missed your draw.

    This was 1-2?
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    You know them better than me but who besides KJ bets the river after that run-out? Calls yes.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, that's very odd that utg didn't raise flop on such a wet board. I like check raising this flop as a way to balance your check raise range with value and not just big draws. But that said donking is also good here some of the time if you have a donk range (I probably do not have a donking range on these flops--I probably check raise a lot though JQ J8 67s 78s 910, 99, 1010, etc). I think probably just jam river, but also there is merit to checking as you look super weak now and the runout favors some of the natural floats. This keeps some strong hands in your donk, donk, check range.

    I think :As :Xs checks back though, that's all I disagree with. But also not calling a shove, so a small bet of $120 probably gets a crying call from those hands. I would just jam though and hope to get value from two pair hands and heroing players who are convinced you missed your draw.

    This was 1-2?

    This was $2-$3-$5.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dnoyeB wrote: »
    You know them better than me but who besides KJ bets the river after that run-out? Calls yes.

    I think a lot of two pairs bet for value allows me to easily check raise all in. If they have KJ so be it. Such a small part of their range. Hard to fold to a check raise given effective stacks and how much will be in the pot.

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