James. Exploitative Folds With Overpairs.

TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,747 -
edited September 2018 in PRO Product Discussion
Gareth James breaks out PioSolver in this video to determine when we can exploitatively bet-fold overpairs against opponents who don't check-raise enough. He examines how such exploits vary with bet sizing and which hands we can continue with against such opponents.

In this follow-up video, Gareth examines exploits of common frequency and sizing mistakes.

Please leave your questions and comments below.
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Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would like to see more examples, not only vs a check raise, but also when hero is oop and cbet is raised. Low stake cash I.e $1\$2 is full of these players that call down with draws and only raise with 2 pair+ and occasionally top pair to "see where there at."

    In this video Gareth came across a very unique situation deep in a mtt. Where most of us won't have enough stats to really make this possible.

    My question would be what happens on the turn when you undoubtedly will face a 2nd barrel? If pio is suggesting floating some J9s hands that have a gutter with BDFd, what do you do on the turn when you pick up equity but not the nuts?

    Using same example I believe board was 8s7s3h? Pot was around 50k, effective stack was around 280k. Action went check, hero bet 20k and got raised 2.8x which was around 56k. Lets say hero calls this bet.

    Turn (T$162k) :8S: :7S: :3H: :5H:
    BB (224k) bets 90k
    Hero?

    Are we simply calling down to suck out? Because on flop hero is folding KK no spade vs a 4% check raise thinking villain has a set. Seems like a lot of chips to waste on a gutter and bdfd with a shallowish stack depth. What about other turns i.e :QH: :KH: :AH: ?

    Apologies if this was answered in the video. I was half asleep.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @TheGameKat

    After watching the video my glass is left half empty instead of half full.

    I gave example above because it appears to me based on effective stacks we can't continue on the turn. We are folding KK Exploitably vs villain, but continuing with some backdoors. However, on the turn, if we folded KK cause villain is nutted, are we folding turn when we pick up equity? Seems kinda pointless and should be folding basically everything on the flop besides a flush draw or sets....
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,747 -
    Yeah, not sure. I think Gareth's e-mail is on the front of the video, you might prod him there.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please leave your questions and comments below.

    What's the point of this thread if James is not going to respond?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,747 -
    Austin wrote: »
    Please leave your questions and comments below.

    What's the point of this thread if James is not going to respond?

    Fair point, I'll follow up.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • LaurenLauren Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    I would like to see more examples, not only vs a check raise, but also when hero is oop and cbet is raised. Low stake cash I.e $1\$2 is full of these players that call down with draws and only raise with 2 pair+ and occasionally top pair to "see where there at."

    In this video Gareth came across a very unique situation deep in a mtt. Where most of us won't have enough stats to really make this possible.

    My question would be what happens on the turn when you undoubtedly will face a 2nd barrel? If pio is suggesting floating some J9s hands that have a gutter with BDFd, what do you do on the turn when you pick up equity but not the nuts?

    Using same example I believe board was 8s7s3h? Pot was around 50k, effective stack was around 280k. Action went check, hero bet 20k and got raised 2.8x which was around 56k. Lets say hero calls this bet.

    Turn (T$162k) :8S: :7S: :3H: :5H:
    BB (224k) bets 90k
    Hero?

    Are we simply calling down to suck out? Because on flop hero is folding KK no spade vs a 4% check raise thinking villain has a set. Seems like a lot of chips to waste on a gutter and bdfd with a shallowish stack depth. What about other turns i.e :QH: :KH: :AH: ?

    Apologies if this was answered in the video. I was half asleep.

    Hi there, (not speaking for Gareth, just myself) Gareth is a tournament pro, not a cash player, I don't really think it is worthwhile to expect his content to apply to cash game.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lauren wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    I would like to see more examples, not only vs a check raise, but also when hero is oop and cbet is raised. Low stake cash I.e $1\$2 is full of these players that call down with draws and only raise with 2 pair+ and occasionally top pair to "see where there at."

    In this video Gareth came across a very unique situation deep in a mtt. Where most of us won't have enough stats to really make this possible.

    My question would be what happens on the turn when you undoubtedly will face a 2nd barrel? If pio is suggesting floating some J9s hands that have a gutter with BDFd, what do you do on the turn when you pick up equity but not the nuts?

    Using same example I believe board was 8s7s3h? Pot was around 50k, effective stack was around 280k. Action went check, hero bet 20k and got raised 2.8x which was around 56k. Lets say hero calls this bet.

    Turn (T$162k) :8S: :7S: :3H: :5H:
    BB (224k) bets 90k
    Hero?

    Are we simply calling down to suck out? Because on flop hero is folding KK no spade vs a 4% check raise thinking villain has a set. Seems like a lot of chips to waste on a gutter and bdfd with a shallowish stack depth. What about other turns i.e :QH: :KH: :AH: ?

    Apologies if this was answered in the video. I was half asleep.

    Hi there, (not speaking for Gareth, just myself) Gareth is a tournament pro, not a cash player, I don't really think it is worthwhile to expect his content to apply to cash game.

    It's the same principle, but in cash the stacks are deeper and there for pio continuance range more realistic. Your exploiting low equity hands by folding against low check raise %. It won't matter if its mtt or a nit in a cash game.
  • GazelligGazellig RCP Coach Posts: 74 ✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Please leave your questions and comments below.

    What's the point of this thread if James is not going to respond?

    Hey, only just seen this thread. I'll dig out the PIO solution (it's on an old computer) and run for turns where our equity increases, but don't have the nuts and get back to you. In the middle of WCOOP so might not be straight away.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gazellig wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    Please leave your questions and comments below.

    What's the point of this thread if James is not going to respond?

    Hey, only just seen this thread. I'll dig out the PIO solution (it's on an old computer) and run for turns where our equity increases, but don't have the nuts and get back to you. In the middle of WCOOP so might not be straight away.

    Appreciate the follow up. Didn't know your user name or would of done @Gazellig so you get a notification. Does PIO treat mtt and cash differently? You see my concern with floating some draws & shallow stacks? Look forward to follow up.

    Thanks for checking in.
  • GazelligGazellig RCP Coach Posts: 74 ✭✭
    @Austin PIO doesn't treat MTT and cash games differently, but the ranges can be vastly different - the ante really creates some wider ranges in MTTs. There is an ICM function in PIO now which is pretty cool for 18 players left and down - I'll be making a video on this soon, although I don't know when it will be released. And apologies for not getting back to you sooner - I thought about making a video response, but you probably wouldn't see it for a few months, so I'll write a written response soon.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Michael EMichael E Red Chipper Posts: 90 ✭✭
    What did I just watch?
    12 Bigs and Exploitatively folding KK on an 8 high board.

    Unless I see him eating an Oreo the right way....I'm going with it.
    I'm down with people making that fold though! Yep...seems like the right play since I rarely check raise. Love it.
  • GazelligGazellig RCP Coach Posts: 74 ✭✭
    Thanks for your feedback. We start the hand 27bb effective. The video aims to highlight that versus players who check/raise too tight we should look to make exploitative folds. I recognise that it looks super nitty, but the video is more an exploration into how to analyse and approach this spot from an exploitative point of view and use node locking within PIOSolver to help.

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