Splash pots

VegaVega Red Chipper Posts: 31 ✭✭
edited August 2018 in Live Poker Hands
Hello friends,

I am curious what everyone's strategies are with splash pots.

Imagine playing 1/2, effective stacks are $200, your table gets the splash pot for $500.
What are the preflop thoughts on this? Are you shoving with anything reasonable? Is this just a bingo spot?

This is actually a thing at my local card room. They do $500 splash on a random table every 30min.

Comments

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    1) Yes, shove with anything reasonable.
    2) Don't be afraid to fold in late position with small or mid pocket pairs after a few all-ins. You don't have the odds to set-mine, and there will be TONS of overcards in front of you.
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,768 -
    It would be difficult to find a situation where I do not get it all-in pre. It is kind of like you have less than a big blind ($200) when the blinds are $133-$266 and the blinds posted then immediately folded and left the table.

    In exactly this kind of spot, I saw a lady raise to $20 (yes, $20) everyone at table calls. I ship it in for $300. She folds JJ for her $300 stack! Three short stacks call. Someone that is not me ends up winning with King high and a Six kicker in this four way pot. No regrets.

    Essentially, everyone is getting such a price (the shorter your starting stack, he better) that the money is compelled to go in.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • VegaVega Red Chipper Posts: 31 ✭✭
    @Doug Hull
    That's the thing about these promotions. It is a fantastic deal for the short stacks - they shouldn't even look.

    I guess the only issue to worry about is if you are super deep, you happen to be in early position when the splash happens, and you have another deep stack who has you covered in late position or blinds. They essentially get a free-roll off of you if they get something decent. They could lose the main pot, but get it all back from the deep stacks side pot.

    I am thinking I would almost shove anything if my stack is less than the splash pot amount, but otherwise, if I am deep (stack greater than splash), it would be positional dependent + hand dependent only if another deep stack shoved.
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,768 -
    If you are at a $1-$2 and get a splash of $500, you would need to
    • have a huge stack
    • have at least one other huge stack active

    I am not sure how "huge" is. But I know the vast majority of $1-$2 games the stacks are never such that we have reached "huge" in two active stacks.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just think of the math, if you have $200 and there is $500 in the middle your getting 2.5 :1 , so you only need 28% equity.
    Don't be afraid to fold in late position with small or mid pocket pairs after a few all-ins.

    @moishetreats care to elaborate a bit more? If 3 people go all in there is roughly $1100 in the pot and hero getting 5.5 :1 so hero only need 15% equity. Even small pairs make a set 1 out of 5 times. If you give the three - 4 players 10-20% range of hands a small pair such as 33 still has roughly 18% equity. Not the best chance but the other ranges are also only around 20-25%. Not like any one player has a huge edge.

    From EP ill likely limp all my trash, shove anything reasonable top 20% or so. Make a decision after if I want to call all in depending on my odds. Even with a hand like 85s had a decent chance.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    @moishetreats care to elaborate a bit more? If 3 people go all in there is roughly $1100 in the pot and hero getting 5.5 :1 so hero only need 15% equity. Even small pairs make a set 1 out of 5 times. If you give the three - 4 players 10-20% range of hands a small pair such as 33 still has roughly 18% equity. Not the best chance but the other ranges are also only around 20-25%. Not like any one player has a huge edge.

    Sets don't always win... :)

    And it's also the law of diminishing returns: The more callers that you have in front of you, then more disproportionately your equity goes down.

    You're right, though: With three callers, it probably makes sense. I was thinking of 4+.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 955 ✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    @moishetreats care to elaborate a bit more? If 3 people go all in there is roughly $1100 in the pot and hero getting 5.5 :1 so hero only need 15% equity. Even small pairs make a set 1 out of 5 times. If you give the three - 4 players 10-20% range of hands a small pair such as 33 still has roughly 18% equity. Not the best chance but the other ranges are also only around 20-25%. Not like any one player has a huge edge.

    Sets don't always win... :)

    Yes but small pairs don't always loose even when they don't hit, small pairs sometimes hold up on there own or get a straight (after all if 4 cards around a 3 hit the river you block the chop twice LOL). They also get to see 5 cards not 3 so you hit your set more often..

    So against 5 other players each having 50% ranges....after all its a splash pot where lots of players are shoving...so 50% range is probably on the tight side...

    33 is the slight favorite at 16.74 vs the other players 16.65.....not bad even if there was not 500 extra dead money....
  • JoeOffsuitJoeOffsuit Red Chipper Posts: 398 ✭✭✭
    Directly after the Red Chip meetup at the Mirage this past June, the Mirage Poker Room had a splash pot promo adding $50 to every table after each goal scored by the LV Knights during their Stanley Cup match that evening. (The Knights scored 3 goals in that night in a losing effort, but each table got 3 splash pots.) After the first splash pot which caused two players to go all in, bust out, and leave, I asked the floor if the poker room manager had a couple minutes for a friendly chat. The manager at the Mirage actually did come over and chat with me.

    I first told him that any promo that gives players money to put back into poker is a great thing for poker. I also told him that at an Indian Reserve casino in Oklahoma I play at, they used to run splash promos this same way, but there were a few issues they had:

    1. Many players would push all-in, with short stacks having a big advantage over deeper stacks,
    2. When the hand was over, lots of time would be lost resolving all the different side pots
    3. Frequently, the losers busting out would leave the game.

    I told him they changed the procedure so that when a table is rewarded a splash pot, they would deal the splash pot hand face up to all players from the previous hand, with no button move from the previous hand, and no blinds posted. They then deal the flop, turn, and river, with no betting. The winner would have the splash prize added to their stack which they had to play with, button would then move and play would continue as before.

    The Mirage manager thanked me, told me it was a good idea that he would share, and that was it. Haven't been back to their poker room since, but if Red Chip is no longer welcome at the Mirage, it's probably my fault.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    JoeOffsuit wrote: »
    Directly after the Red Chip meetup at the Mirage this past June, the Mirage Poker Room had a splash pot promo adding $50 to every table after each goal scored by the LV Knights during their Stanley Cup match that evening. (The Knights scored 3 goals in that night in a losing effort, but each table got 3 splash pots.) After the first splash pot which caused two players to go all in, bust out, and leave, I asked the floor if the poker room manager had a couple minutes for a friendly chat. The manager at the Mirage actually did come over and chat with me.

    I first told him that any promo that gives players money to put back into poker is a great thing for poker. I also told him that at an Indian Reserve casino in Oklahoma I play at, they used to run splash promos this same way, but there were a few issues they had:

    1. Many players would push all-in, with short stacks having a big advantage over deeper stacks,
    2. When the hand was over, lots of time would be lost resolving all the different side pots
    3. Frequently, the losers busting out would leave the game.

    I told him they changed the procedure so that when a table is rewarded a splash pot, they would deal the splash pot hand face up to all players from the previous hand, with no button move from the previous hand, and no blinds posted. They then deal the flop, turn, and river, with no betting. The winner would have the splash prize added to their stack which they had to play with, button would then move and play would continue as before.

    The Mirage manager thanked me, told me it was a good idea that he would share, and that was it. Haven't been back to their poker room since, but if Red Chip is no longer welcome at the Mirage, it's probably my fault.

    Takes the skill out of splash pots and gives everyone a fair chance. Don't like it....supposed to punish scared money, not reward it.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    There's a big difference between a pot splashed with $50 and a pot splashed with $500.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,124 -
    There's a big difference between a pot splashed with $50 and a pot splashed with $500.

    Indeed, and one of the attractions is that many players fail to adjust for the splash pot size.

    That said, I've never been a fan. They used to run a NFL splash pot promo back when the poker room was in the aquarium when the room was grinder-heavy. Locals who typically bought in for $300 would arrive 15 mins before kick off and short stack.

    I quite like Joe's idea, but even better IMO would be to deal out the hand as a PLO flip.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • VegaVega Red Chipper Posts: 31 ✭✭
    So this promotion happened tonight - was at Choctaw (Oklahoma - I only play at Winstar which is also Oklahoma).

    For 10 hours, they splashed $500 every 20 minutes. Interestingly, there was only 10 tables running, and I sit at any available which was a 1/2.

    We ended up getting the splash pot on our table 4 times. I went all in all 4 times, but went 0-4 (granted I had pretty bad cards). The sick thing was I got heads up on 3 of them.

    The first splash, I was on the button (I was over +600 at the time, and only one other person had me covered - everyone else had less than 200). Everyone limped to me and I just bet $100, essentially to fold out the scared money. It did fold out everyone except the CO who went ahead and shoved his $175ish. I called, headsup, I had J2s, he had Q9, hitting a nine.

    Second, time I was in BB, they all limped to me - I had +500, I shoved with 88. The UTG called with $72, the rest of the table folded. He had A2, flop was AA9.

    Third time, was almost exactly the same as the first time, but I had J3s. I shove for +400, I actually got 3 callers, and someone actually had AA. (Biggest stack that called was $100.

    Fourth time, was pretty funny. I was again in BB, they all limp to me, I pushed with 72s with +400. Everyone folds, except the lady next to me in the SB. After about 3minutes of debating, she called with a stack of $150. She had 92, we hit a 2 on the flop. The 9 played.

    My table was perfect for splash pots, nobody was willing to put their money in for it. All the other tables were going all in blind, with 5-6 people shoving.

    Was fun, I wish I had just a bit better cards.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vega wrote: »
    So this promotion happened tonight - was at Choctaw (Oklahoma - I only play at Winstar which is also Oklahoma).

    For 10 hours, they splashed $500 every 20 minutes. Interestingly, there was only 10 tables running, and I sit at any available which was a 1/2.

    We ended up getting the splash pot on our table 4 times. I went all in all 4 times, but went 0-4 (granted I had pretty bad cards). The sick thing was I got heads up on 3 of them.

    The first splash, I was on the button (I was over +600 at the time, and only one other person had me covered - everyone else had less than 200). Everyone limped to me and I just bet $100, essentially to fold out the scared money. It did fold out everyone except the CO who went ahead and shoved his $175ish. I called, headsup, I had J2s, he had Q9, hitting a nine.

    Second, time I was in BB, they all limped to me - I had +500, I shoved with 88. The UTG called with $72, the rest of the table folded. He had A2, flop was AA9.

    Third time, was almost exactly the same as the first time, but I had J3s. I shove for +400, I actually got 3 callers, and someone actually had AA. (Biggest stack that called was $100.

    Fourth time, was pretty funny. I was again in BB, they all limp to me, I pushed with 72s with +400. Everyone folds, except the lady next to me in the SB. After about 3minutes of debating, she called with a stack of $150. She had 92, we hit a 2 on the flop. The 9 played.

    My table was perfect for splash pots, nobody was willing to put their money in for it. All the other tables were going all in blind, with 5-6 people shoving.

    Was fun, I wish I had just a bit better cards.

    Lucky to have 4 splash pots. Could have been a great night. 3 out of 4 HU LOL!!! I wouldn't even look at my cards.

    Well played.

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