Double C/R very deep - too fancy?

Sean OSean O Red Chipper Posts: 298 ✭✭
Hi folks, haven’t been playing much lately, but this happened last night. [i has written a section here about V and my image but I realized I might taint the analysis, so let’s just say there were some meta reasons to play for stacks]. I will say V is competent and more aggro than typical at this stake.

1/3 live. I’m effective stack at about $1100. V raises to $15, button calls, I call in BB with red 9’s.

Flop: Jc9s7c.
I check
V bets $25
BTN calls
I raise to $85
V calls
BTN folds

Turn: Kd
I check
V bets $125
I raise to $450

Thoughts? I felt funny repping the straight here, but felt like leading turn had the same effect. Bet-bet probably gets paid more often than my homerun swing here, but either way I need V to believe combo draws and such are still in my range, which is not out of the question given some previous hands he saw me play.


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,031 ✭✭✭✭
    Depending on V's position and BU stack, I can easily see a preflop 3bet with 99 here.

    About turn c-r... looks too strong to be paid. If you want to play for more, why not bet turn and overbet river ? Or orverbet turn ? Or underbet / 3bet turn ?
    C-R seems too "fancy play syndrome" to me.
  • Sean OSean O Red Chipper Posts: 298 ✭✭
    @red, that does seem like the standard line, but what does he call a river overbet with that he won’t call this c/r? I know there should be some hands in theory, but in practice I think he either thinks I’m FOS or not...
  • Sean OSean O Red Chipper Posts: 298 ✭✭
    Also, V was in MP, three off the button I think. Sorry for leaving that off the OP.
  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭✭
    I also think a checkraise is too strong of a play. Let's not forget that villain can still have all straights and sets, in addition to his weaker hands that easily fold to a turn checkraise.

    Whereas, if you lead out something like 2/3 to1x pot, he'll still call with club draws, KJ, possibly even QQ if he's sticky/doesn't believe you. Also, if you lead big on the turn and he raises, you should be able to get away from it pretty easily.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    The turn card helps V more than Hero. Are you sure that you want to do everything possible to build as big a pot as possible?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1) preflop flat call is fine. 99 can be in a 3bet range given stack depth, but prefer to be IP when 3betting this hand as you should be called pretty often.

    2) flop check raise as your line is fine, but sizing is terrible.
    Flop($45): Jc9s7c.
    I check
    V bets $25
    BTN calls
    I raise to $85

    You're giving odds of $60 to win $180 (3:1). Imagine villain has AcTc here, with 12 outs Your giving basically direct odds. You wanna make a PsB here ($145) so they are calling $120 to win $240 giving 2:1. Its a large bet but also a very dynamic board.

    PSB is 3x last bet + other money in the pot.
    $25x3 + $25 (caller) + $45 (pot).

    Flop ($45) :Jc :9S: :7C:
    Hero ($1100) checks
    LJ bets $25
    Btn calls
    Hero raises to $145
    LJ calls
    Btn folds
    Turn ($360) :KD:
    Hero ($955) bets $200
    LJ calls
    River ($760) X
    Hero ($755) ?

    *even with a small turn bet 55% pot you still set up a river shove. This is set up by the PSB on the flop.

    As played your basically hoping to get called by or he folds a hand like :KC: :TC: makes the most sense besides the obvious QT. I'm saying KTc because villain bet about half pot $125 into $240 on the turn.

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