Fear, bad play or both?

Adam KeenanAdam Keenan Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
Copenhagen Casino $2 - 5
Hero MP1 - 500 (1st time playing in Copenhagen)
V1 MP2 - 1200 TAG reg
V 2 Button - TAG reg - 1300 (raises big when strong)
V3 BB - fish - 280
+ 2 more players maniac & fish

Hero :JS: :9s


Pre-flop
Hero raise 15 (3×BB standard open)
All call
Pot 90

Flop
:9c :7s :3s
Hero (top pair + backdoor) - bet 45
V1,2,3 call

> plan is to check fold if high card or club comes. Bet if I improve.
Pot 270

Turn - where it goes wrong.
:9c :7s :3s :Ts
Should I bet here?

I donk 95 for protection (just watched weasels video!)

V1, thinks then calls (guess at club draw)
V2 raises to 400 (J8 not in his range plus I block him so definitely 10s)
V3 shoves 220 (seems v weak)

Pot size 1080

I have 315 to call.
I'm sure v2 has a set so I have only have flush and straight outs > 8 flush outs & 2 more straight outs (not spade or club) - 10 outs

4-2 rule puts me at 5-1 so not in my favour. Odds at 3.5 to 1.
Still feel this is a call but I couldn't put my stack in.

V2 calls :Qc :Tc
V3 takes pot with set
River was :4s

Questions
1. Should I check the turn?
2. Should I call?
3. Is it still fear getting in the way?

Comments

  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Flop is a check OOP against 3 opponents here as the majority of your broadway range is checking

    As played, Turn should be a check as a lot of your overpair range is going to want to check now on this card versus this many opponents.

    As played On Turn, facing all that action is kind of close but I think you just have to assume they making errors and you have a really good hand and put it in.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 323 ✭✭✭
    Few things to improve structure and readability of your post.

    You're six-handed (I think?) based on descriptions of six players, yourself included. It is convention to then use the following notation for the different positions: UTG, HJ/MP, CO, BU, SB, BB. If we just look at your description it's unclear if you were in UTG or HJ.

    Also, where were the other maniac and fish seated? If the maniac has position on you I might not open this UTG. However, if the other fish is in SB I might elect to open and look to play the two fish in the blinds with position. Things to consider, but again, we need to know the exact seatings of all players and their (rough) stack sizes.

    Try maintaining the order of when and how things happened too.

    Preflop
    UTG folds, Hero :Js :9s raises to 15, CO calls, BU calls, SB folds, BB calls.

    Flop (90)
    SB checks, Hero bets .... etc.

    This massively increases readability and you're sure to get more replies to your hand histories. Check out some of @Austin 's posts, he structures them very nicely.

    I think you're getting suits wrong, either of your whole cards or the flop. I'll preserve judgment until it's fixed but you should probably look to raise larger pre if you're regularly getting called by 3 players when you raise from early position.
  • Adam KeenanAdam Keenan Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    Thanks for both the comments.

    - @Christian Soto : as I've thought about it more i came to the same conclusions and think I've tried to be more (but inadequately) aggressive due to step up in stakes. Stilled finished with a winning session but a lot to work on. Thanks for feedback.

    - @LeChiffre : really useful comments. I'll try copying format of an Austin hand for next time.
  • AZMattAZMatt Red Chipper Posts: 47 ✭✭
    This reads very confusingly

    "I have 315 to call.
    I'm sure v2 has a set so I have only have flush and straight outs > 8 flush outs & 2 more straight outs (not spade or club) - 10 outs"

    I'm assuming you didn't actually have Js9s as hole cards here? were they offsuit?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Based on the suites given this is how I interrupted the HH.

    * @thegamekat was there an update? What happened to the spade icon?

    3 folds
    LJ Hero ($500) :Js :9s opens $15
    HJ tag ($1,200) calls $15
    Co ($xxx) calls $15
    Btn tag ($1300) calls $15
    SB ($xxx) calls $15
    BB. Fish ($280) calls $15

    Flop ($90) :9c :7s :3s
    Hero ($485) bets $45
    Hj ($1185) calls
    Co folds
    Btn ($1285) calls
    Sb fold
    BB ($265) calls

    Turn ($270) :9c :7s :3s :Ts
    Hero ($440) bets $95
    HJ ($1140) calls $95
    Btn ($1240) raises to $400
    BB ($220) calls all in $220

    Hero $305 to win $1080
    Pot odds 3.54 : 1 (22%)
    A) call?
    B ) raise?
    C) fold?

    Not sure what the exact suites are, I would guess board should actually be

    :9s :7c :3s Tc and you have Jc9c not Js9s?

    The way its written looks like you turned a flush? You say backdoor on the flop though and on the turn you say SD +FD. Let's say you have Jc9c here.

    3 outs to a straight 888
    8 outs for a flush *can't pair the 3.
    So you have 11 outs and break even odds

    You also say you think V1 has club draw which would nullify your club draw and basically drawing to 8x.

    Now notes for the hand
    1) flop favors callers range and its a six way pot. Six way pot you want to have combo draws or 2 pair or better when cbetting. Leading with 1 pair and bdfd oop against 3 others is just burning money.
    2)same as flop the Turn improves their calling range, so not sure what you are "protecting" against. T8s makes top pair, 86s now has a straight, T9s makes two pair, J10s now improves to top pair. This is one of the worse cards for your range.
    3) good news is that had you had a real hand, if your hand is actually Js9s and you have a flush then I would like your sizing on flop and turn.
    4) $15 is standard raise, but do you also usually go six ways to the flop? If thats the case I think J9s may be a little light for six way pots. I would tighten my range a bit and bet larger to around $25 as an open. $15 is only standard because they like playing bingo and not investing too much into the slot machine. Your job is not to make them feel comfortable, but torture them and inflict pain!
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe the board is

    9c 7c 3s Ts ?

    If v1 has QcTc
    Hero has Js9s?

    This board makes more sense.

    Overall thought process stays the same though. I think you moved up in stakes and got excited with Top pair without assessing the ranges first and just started betting.

    I also think this board makes more sense because QcTc is unlikely to call 9c7s3s flop six ways. That would be an extremely loose call six ways with four people left and would not classify him as a tag.

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