Was my line fine with AQs?

Kyle BabcockKyle Babcock Red Chipper Posts: 14 ✭✭
Had my first big whacking in 5/5 game tonight, unfortunately. Rough night also having AA cracked by QJo in a all in pre hand. Wanted to make sure my line in this hand was ok.

5/5, effective stack ~$775. This is a very soft game with some out-of-towners gambling terrible hands and open raising huge sizes. Just two hands prior I had bluffed the villain who is maniacal. I play generally close to ABC, and he was 3bet-defending his staddle and I jammed QJo knowing he had a loose range (had seen him previously CALL all ins with K4o, 33, ATo, and JAM with 24o). Now 2 hands later...

Button straddle is on. So 5/5/10, I open :Ad :Qd from EP to 35, folds to villain in LP who 3bets to 130. I decide that with his maniacal range, I would be better jamming for value here, as he'd probably call any Ace down to ATo and possibly any suited Ace. He'd also probably call any PP, and most broadway hands like KQ KJ. I 4bet jam for 640 more, and after thinking for a little, he calls with :6s :6c .

Board runs out :2h :2d :Tc :6d :5s .

Any thoughts on my play? Can never fold pre to his range, and would be tough to play post flop with him possibly connecting with any board.

Comments

  • Zero CoolZero Cool Red Chipper Posts: 270 ✭✭✭

    Any thoughts on my play? Can never fold pre to his range, and would be tough to play post flop with him possibly connecting with any board.

    I agree you can never fold this pre and calling would leave you OOP in a 2.5 SPR pot without initiative which is not a great option either. If you're confident in V's calling range then you have 56% equity against it so I like the shove. If nothing else it will help keep them from 3-betting you too light in the future.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭✭
    Why do you want to 4bet and allow him to fold the junk he is 3betting with and shrinking your range edge ?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Button straddle is on. So 5/5/10, I open :Ad :Qd from EP to 35,

    Did sb and Bb fold? If one of them limped the $35 seems kinda small.

    I don't really like the 4bet jam as you get to act first post flop. You allow villain to play near perfect. Maybe not this villain, but in general when your 4 bet is 5x the 3bet, it is just too huge and you fold out all bluffs.

    In general I wouldn't 4bet this hand, but if I were going to I would likely go to around $325 and save for the remaining $450 for most flops.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    Austin, which flop would you be weary of? Connected ones? Middle cards?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dnoyeB wrote: »
    Austin, which flop would you be weary of? Connected ones? Middle cards?

    What range would you put a 4 bet caller on? What range of hands 3bet and calls a 4bet?
  • John GunnerJohn Gunner Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
    If your hand range read of the villain is accurate then your play is good. But you only observed the hand ranges villain is calling. Have you observe the hand range he is 3 betting with? If he has been 3 betting with decent hands then you might need to consider a different approach. If he has been 3 betting with medium pairs, are you willing to shove on a coin toss with AQs?
  • Kyle BabcockKyle Babcock Red Chipper Posts: 14 ✭✭
    If your hand range read of the villain is accurate then your play is good. But you only observed the hand ranges villain is calling. Have you observe the hand range he is 3 betting with? If he has been 3 betting with decent hands then you might need to consider a different approach. If he has been 3 betting with medium pairs, are you willing to shove on a coin toss with AQs?

    I already stated that I had seen him 3bet jam 24o as a bluff, along with calling raises with many hands like 78o, 25o, and he was running hot hitting those so i got to see many of his junk hands at showdown.
    Austin wrote: »
    Button straddle is on. So 5/5/10, I open :Ad :Qd from EP to 35,

    Did sb and Bb fold? If one of them limped the $35 seems kinda small.

    I don't really like the 4bet jam as you get to act first post flop. You allow villain to play near perfect. Maybe not this villain, but in general when your 4 bet is 5x the 3bet, it is just too huge and you fold out all bluffs.

    In general I wouldn't 4bet this hand, but if I were going to I would likely go to around $325 and save for the remaining $450 for most flops.

    The blinds act last before straddler in our game. So UTG still acts first, in normal order, then button is skipped and blinds act, then button acts last. I was RFI.
  • Kyle BabcockKyle Babcock Red Chipper Posts: 14 ✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Button straddle is on. So 5/5/10, I open :Ad :Qd from EP to 35,

    Did sb and Bb fold? If one of them limped the $35 seems kinda small.

    I don't really like the 4bet jam as you get to act first post flop. You allow villain to play near perfect. Maybe not this villain, but in general when your 4 bet is 5x the 3bet, it is just too huge and you fold out all bluffs.

    In general I wouldn't 4bet this hand, but if I were going to I would likely go to around $325 and save for the remaining $450 for most flops.

    Curious how you play post flop when you miss, most of the time. Assuming you 4bet to 325 and he just flats, you have an SPR of less than one. He could be calling almost all his range. Like i said, any PP, high card/trash kicker hands, any broadway. So even on a dry board like K72 OOP, how you gonna cbet? it'd either be a tiny underbet or all in for 2/3 pot. Or would you check to him and let it develop?

    I know there's lots of variables but without being able to put him on much of a range, even if i miss, check and he bets, it's hard to call because he could have hit bottom pair.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Button straddle is on. So 5/5/10, I open :Ad :Qd from EP to 35,

    Did sb and Bb fold? If one of them limped the $35 seems kinda small.

    I don't really like the 4bet jam as you get to act first post flop. You allow villain to play near perfect. Maybe not this villain, but in general when your 4 bet is 5x the 3bet, it is just too huge and you fold out all bluffs.

    In general I wouldn't 4bet this hand, but if I were going to I would likely go to around $325 and save for the remaining $450 for most flops.

    Curious how you play post flop when you miss, most of the time. Assuming you 4bet to 325 and he just flats, you have an SPR of less than one. He could be calling almost all his range. Like i said, any PP, high card/trash kicker hands, any broadway. So even on a dry board like K72 OOP, how you gonna cbet? it'd either be a tiny underbet or all in for 2/3 pot. Or would you check to him and let it develop?

    I know there's lots of variables but without being able to put him on much of a range, even if i miss, check and he bets, it's hard to call because he could have hit bottom pair.

    You're first to act, so I'm jamming 85%+ of flops. The other 15% is when I want to induce something when I flop something super strong.

    Yes, he calls with a wide range for $300, does he call with that same range for $700+? If he continues with his whole range for $300 great! How often will he actually hit the flop and be ahead? He will likely fold 70%+ on the flop. Look how often a 30-40% range actually makes a pair.
    If your hand range read of the villain is accurate then your play is good. But you only observed the hand ranges villain is calling. Have you observe the hand range he is 3 betting with? If he has been 3 betting with decent hands then you might need to consider a different approach. If he has been 3 betting with medium pairs, are you willing to shove on a coin toss with AQs?

    I already stated that I had seen him 3bet jam 24o as a bluff, along with calling raises with many hands like 78o, 25o, and he was running hot hitting those so i got to see many of his junk hands at showdown.
    Austin wrote: »
    Button straddle is on. So 5/5/10, I open :Ad :Qd from EP to 35,

    Did sb and Bb fold? If one of them limped the $35 seems kinda small.

    I don't really like the 4bet jam as you get to act first post flop. You allow villain to play near perfect. Maybe not this villain, but in general when your 4 bet is 5x the 3bet, it is just too huge and you fold out all bluffs.

    In general I wouldn't 4bet this hand, but if I were going to I would likely go to around $325 and save for the remaining $450 for most flops.

    The blinds act last before straddler in our game. So UTG still acts first, in normal order, then button is skipped and blinds act, then button acts last. I was RFI.

    Just watch a video on this... Little unique but makes sense.
  • Fernando OFernando O Red Chipper Posts: 78 ✭✭
    You found yourself in a spot in which the stack sizes are effectively 77.5bbs deep against an aggressive/bad player, so AQ, being the nuts, is a hand you are happy to get it in with pre flop.

    Calling the three bet would amount to taking a passive line in a short stack situation against an unreadable range, leaving you guessing which junk of his hit the board when you arrive at the flop with A-high. In that formation you are likely to make more mistakes than you would when you get it in preflop against his 4bet-call it off range.

    F
  • Fernando OFernando O Red Chipper Posts: 78 ✭✭
    edited August 2018
    As a side note to calling his 3-bet, against aggressive/bad players you should skew your strategy towards betting for hard and soft value (thick and thin value for some), and look to call it off.

    Against passive bad players a broad stroke strategy of betting for hard/soft value and not calling it off when they become aggressive tends to bring meat, berries, and nuts back to camp.

    F

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