56s Showdown or bluff-raise river?

Baby_SharkBaby_Shark Red Chipper Posts: 74 ✭✭
edited August 2018 in Live Poker Hands
Hero is new to table, first button. All players are unknowns. Lojack is middle aged well dressed and quiet, and covers hero.

Hero is $197 on BU

Lojack (LJ) raises to $7

Hero has :5d :6d
Hero calls

BB calls


I feel calling here is standard with the button. I don't expect much 3betting from the blinds live, and this hand plays well with position and high SPR

FLOP $22
:7d :5s :Tc

BB checks
LJ checks
HERO checks


3-straight 3-flush with bottom pair! Not the nuts but not bad. I was considering a bet, as LJ's range is capped when he checks multiway on a dynamic, straightening board. But BB still has all the sets and tens in his range, so I check to keep ranges wide and play a smaller pot.

TURN $22
:4d

BB checks
LJ bets $15
HERO raises to $50
BB folds
LJ calls


OESFD plus pair on the turn and we improve to monster draw.

BB unlikely to have strength in his range multiway after a scary turn and second check.

LJ could easily bet 100% of his range after the flop checks through, and I believe he is capped on the flop to overcards, 99, 88, 7x, and maybe a hand like top set, so I expect the raise on the turn to take the pot down a high percentage of the time.

I turn equity lol, so I bet.

When LJ calls, I think TT is no longer possible (and was unlikely to slowplay the flop multiway already), 99 and 88 are less likely unless this player thinks I am also capped on the flop and have no tens in my range as well. Now I percieve LJ's range to be predominantly hands like :Kd :Qd --> Overcards that turned a flushdraw and decided to semibluff.

RIVER $122
:4s

LJ tanks... LJ bets $60
HERO Raises to $140 and is ALL IN!?
LJ folds


given that the 4 is highly unlikely to have helped LJ, and how heavily I believe he is weighted towards two unpaired diamonds, I believe I could call here profitably as a bluffcatcher. It would be pretty gross if he rolled over a weird :Td :9d or 88.

I feel my range looks very strong to villain after I come alive on the turn. 54 for the full house, 68 for the straight, all very much a part of my range here. Plus, I have blockers to both of those big hands, so I decided this was a good spot to bluff-raise the river.

Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What are your thoughts about 3 betting preflop with 65s?
    FLOP $22
    :7d :5s :TC:
    LJ's range is capped when he checks multiway on a dynamic, straightening board.

    Board is more static. What do you think LJ is capped at?

    Is your range also capped being last to act on the BTN and checking?
    LJ could easily bet 100% of his range after the flop checks through, and I believe he is capped on the flop to overcards, 99, 88, 7x, and maybe a hand like top set, so I expect the raise on the turn to take the pot down a high percentage of the time.

    Ok, now I see what range you gave him as I am commenting as I read through it. I think your turn raise could be larger. A PSB would be $67 ($15 x 3 + $22). Just a tad bigger around $55.

    I also don't think LJ will be betting 100% of his range here on 3 to a straight T754 on the turn. I think he is betting something with equity, 66, 76s, FD, 99-88, etc.
    I turn equity lol, so I bet.

    Not the best reason.... Saying something like LJ is capped and BTN has range advantage on the turn would be better.
    I decided this was a good spot to bluff-raise the river.

    I don't mind a call, but raising here is kind of terrible imo. If you had air, I would say ok because villain isn't repping much and likely had a hand like :KD: :QD: as you said. You thought he would bet Tx on the flop and possibly fold 99-88 on the turn. Why would he come out in bet the river with these hands? After you shove pot is $322 and villain has to call $80 so 4:1.

    Overall, I'm fine with how you played it until the river where call > raise > fold.

    Neither of you really rep much imo besides 86s or 44. Only a couple of combos for you. 86s probably a fold preflop as well vs 3.5bb raise at 100bb.
  • Baby_SharkBaby_Shark Red Chipper Posts: 74 ✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    What are your thoughts about 3 betting preflop with 65s?

    I prefer to 3bet with blockers in this spot without any info on villain. I think that villain folds too often to 3bets because he is too wide or passive, I'll use these small SC as bluffs. If I have other info that leans me towards aggression (SB and BB look like they will fold, for example) I would be more likely to raise here.

    Because I'm new to the table, I like to play a little slower while I get to know the table and pick spots.

    I also don't mind playing multiway with this hand type, so I'm less inclined to 3bet bluff without reads.

    How about you, Austin? You raising here most of the time?
    Austin wrote: »
    Board is more static.

    Is it? My understanding of Static vs Dynamic was that on static boards, the best hand is likely already made, whereas on dynamic boards, the best hand is likely to change by the river. Here, the board is T-high, which means that hands like AT are best now, but scared of a lot of overcards that may come and change the best hand.

    I understand Static/Dynamic to have a different but related meaning to wet/dry. I would describe this board as dynamic, and only slightly wet (rainbow, only a few straight draws).
    Austin wrote: »
    I don't mind a call, but raising here is kind of terrible imo. If you had air, I would say ok because villain isn't repping much and likely had a hand like :KD: :QD: as you said. You thought he would bet Tx on the flop and possibly fold 99-88 on the turn. Why would he come out in bet the river with these hands? After you shove pot is $322 and villain has to call $80 so 4:1.

    I agree... but this is exactly why I posted the hand, as I'm conflicted here. If my ranging of villain is correct, I can absolutely call and have no need to raise, as his range is so heavily weighted to air, but the odds we give to villain on a raise means he won't fold anything that beats our low pair. HOWEVER, we could be wrong. We are new to the table, and this player may be illogical, and do something unpredictable like "slowplay his JJ on the flop" or have a weird 88 that decides it has to bluff the river... maybe he won't fold a weird JJ getting 4-1... but a player that would slowplay this holding on this flop might just read our strength as strength and say "when you're beat, you're beat" to themselves and fold.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I prefer to 3bet with blockers in this spot without any info on villain. I think that villain folds too often to 3bets because he is too wide

    Gotta decide
    1) you have no info on villan so you want to use blockers for your 3bets
    2) you have info and he folds too much to 3bets making 65s profitable to 3bet
    I would describe this board as dynamic, and only slightly wet (rainbow, only a few straight draws).

    Are you trolling me right now? If wet = dynamic and dry = static & the board is only a little wet, but mostly dry it would be static right?

    :7d :5s :TC:

    What turn card can come that drastically changes the equity of someones range?

    Give you an example
    3 way pot
    Flop ($x) :JS: :8S: :5H:
    Utg checks
    Mp bets
    Btn calls
    utg check raises
    Mp folds
    Btn calls :JD: :TH:
    Turn ($x) :JS: :8S: :5H: :AH:
    Utg bets
    Btn ???

    On the flop if you assign a range of flush draws, over pairs, and some straight draws, maybe some better jacks, sets etc.

    On this turn you are now losing to most flush draws.

    This board texture has two different open ended draws, 1 double gut sd, & fd. Lots of turn cards can change someone's equity not just over cards.

    Dynamic board will have like 1\3 of the deck where favorite on the flop can be underdog.

    Dynamic flop is not all low flops where over cards can come

    Static flop is not all high cards where there are no over cards possible.
    HOWEVER, we could be wrong. We are new to the table, and this player may be illogical

    Just going to go with my read and play solid poker. Not going to assume anything to justify fancy play.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    A5 A6 A7 also raise pre, check the flop and bet the turn and call your raise.
  • Fernando OFernando O Red Chipper Posts: 78 ✭✭
    I like that your post covers the essence of Showdown Theory (when to bet or check). It also covers the reasons to bet, and leverage; important concepts to consider.

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