Cbet or Delay Cbet

Bernard SilvaBernard Silva Red Chipper Posts: 18 ✭✭
Game 1/2nl (300 max)
3 limps I have qts(clubs) in the cutoff and raise to 20 dollars, sb calls and one of the limper calls. The sb is asain around 50 and villain B is a MAWG drinking a beer and up over 1k. The sb has open limped kqs in late position before. Villain B has open limped a5s on the cutoff before.
Pot=$62 on the flop the flop is a23 rainbow with no club both villains check. Is the optimal line to cbet or delay cbet? Assuming both villains check turn can we underbet to 25 dollars here and have the same result as betting 35+?
In addition, I estimate the sb CPFR is 30% and the limpers to be 85% excluding the top 15% into his raising range.
Sb stack=220, hero=350,limper =covers
Heros image is nitty

Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its really hard to get feed back when you put hand history (HH) in paragraph form.

    EP limps $2
    Ep2 folds
    MP1 limps $2
    Mp2 limps $2
    CO Hero ($350) :QC: :TC: raise to $20
    BTN folds
    SB ($220) calls $20
    One of the limpers called? I can't tell who is in the hand.

    Flop ($62) :AD: :2S: :3H:
    SB ($200) checks
    MP ($1,000) checks
    Hero ($330) ?
    Is the optimal line to cbet or delay cbet?

    *I would bet here and be one and done for $20-$30.

    check out some of the other post to see how hand histories are posted.

    Include positions, yes, even the limpers
    stack sizes
    bet sizes
    Any previous history
  • EatRunPokerEatRunPoker NY, NYRed Chipper Posts: 91 ✭✭
    I agree with one and done. If club on flop, I'd continue club turns, but that's not the case here. I would definitely fire around 25 as it's enough to fold out all their non-ace holdings, which I'm sure in a loose 1-2 game there are many. $25 gets enough folds, especially with your image being nitty, to make it profitable.
  • Bernard SilvaBernard Silva Red Chipper Posts: 18 ✭✭
    Thanks for the advice.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Is the optimal line to cbet or delay cbet?

    *I would bet here and be one and done for $20-$30.
    Out of the blue, I can support the c-bet. I but disagree with the sizing: we don't want to give any reason to float light by underbetting. I'd stick to my casual bet size (mine is 2/3 pot bet)
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭✭
    This is closer than you guys think 3W. I wouldn't CB this spot and if you CB every B-way combo(ie QTs without even BDFD) you are going to be CBing too wide/often especially if you use larger sizings(ie 2/3).

    Even as exploit I think there is a case for using dealy CB in this spot. Even vs the ~ranges the OOP mentions it is pretty close:

    ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.3 Professional)
    Holdem, Generic syntax
    Board - As3h2d Dead - QcTc
    PLAYER_2 66-22,A7-A2,K9-K6,Q9-Q6,J9-J6,T8-T6,97-96,86,76-75,65-64,54-53,43-42,32,Kx5x-Kx2x,Qx5x-Qx2x,Jx5x-Jx2x,Tx5x-Tx2x,9x5x-9x2x,8x5x-8x2x,7x4x-7x2x,6x3x-6x2x,5x2x,Ax9y-Ax8y,KxTy,QxTy,JxTy,Tx9y,9x8y,8x7y
    PLAYER_3 JJ-22,AQ-A7,A5-A4,KQ-K9,QJ-Q9,JT,Ax6x-Ax2x,Kx8x,Qx8x,Jx9x-Jx8x,Tx9x-Tx8x,9x8x,8x7x
    600000 trials (randomized)


    How often do(es)
    at least 1 player flop hand category at least secondpair
    66.8275% (400965)


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭✭
    I but agree with
    kenaces wrote: »
    you are going to be CBing too wide/often especially if you use larger sizings(ie 2/3).
    Because it also means c-betting all KT+, QJ+, maybe many bckd door. Way way too many bluffs.
    This is why c-betting a hand like QT no bckd is imho an exploitative play. But I think low stake players pool is too weak and is going to fold way to much on such board as they don't understand ranges and how these flop.
    kenaces wrote: »

    How often do(es)
    at least 1 player flop hand category at least secondpair
    66.8275% (400965)
    Here, I think you should see for "at least top pair". Because 2nd pair is either 3X or a med PP like 88. And none of them like much heat on a AXX board when someone is rep AX.

    So we also have to know our Villains and dynamic with them ; considering we are "nit", this also increase our FE.

    Nota bene: Yes,I agree with the big size "issue". But there are pro and con. Has to be chosen based on situation and strategy. So not an issue, but has to be thought before hand.

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