How often do you check raise?

AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
Is check raising with a merged range a good idea? General player pool has 2 pair+ usually.

I'm experimenting with check raising more TPGK+ hands to go with my sets and combo draw hands. Before I lose too much money curious what your thoughts are?

Also playing around with Snowie some, it has a small, basically 2x open size, so trying this out as well. Hard to get any decent sample size.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • EatRunPokerEatRunPoker NY, NYRed Chipper Posts: 91 ✭✭
    Remember in Poker's 1%, Ed Miller states that there are certain rules you follow unless your opponents break the rules first? Well at low stakes these rules are broken every single hand--they are broken in HUGE ways. Your job to maximize your profit in these games should be to exploit these gaping holes in their strategy.

    Using Snowie against 1-3 or 2-5 players is so much overkill it probably hurts you more than anything. It's a great study tool in certain circumstances, but don't let it take you away from playing exploitively which is what you should be doing to earn the highest hourly at 1-3 and 2-5.

    As far as check raising TPGK, I wouldn't reinvent the wheel. Sometimes it's called for and other times (most times) it's better to just bet your TPGK for value.

    I would NEVER open 2x in a live cash game. Ever. If players are willing to call 5x opens with K5o and J4s you need to be making them pay the max, getting them in uncomfortable SPR situations out of position with weak holdings.



  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Remember in Poker's 1%, Ed Miller states that there are certain rules you follow unless your opponents break the rules first? Well at low stakes these rules are broken every single hand--they are broken in HUGE ways. Your job to maximize your profit in these games should be to exploit these gaping holes in their strategy.

    Using Snowie against 1-3 or 2-5 players is so much overkill it probably hurts you more than anything. It's a great study tool in certain circumstances, but don't let it take you away from playing exploitively which is what you should be doing to earn the highest hourly at 1-3 and 2-5.

    As far as check raising TPGK, I wouldn't reinvent the wheel. Sometimes it's called for and other times (most times) it's better to just bet your TPGK for value.

    I would NEVER open 2x in a live cash game. Ever. If players are willing to call 5x opens with K5o and J4s you need to be making them pay the max, getting them in uncomfortable SPR situations out of position with weak holdings.

    Only thing I disagree with is limiting myself. If Snowie allows me to destroy my opposition than that's exactly what I am going to do. Since I've had Snowie I've won 50 out of my last 54 sessions. I realize I still have leaks, my win rate is pretty high, but It's still not as high as I want it. I'm looking for record breaking type win rate. Everything else is fantastic advice. As I type this having a losing session (1.5 buy-in), but still early in my session. Couple more hours before my time is up.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin plays in low stakes action cap games, perfect for snowie.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Austin plays in low stakes action cap games, perfect for snowie.

    Preflop is meh on snowie but overall 👍
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 4,011 -
    Austin wrote: »
    I'm experimenting with check raising more TPGK+ hands to go with my sets and combo draw hands. Before I lose too much money curious what your thoughts are?

    1. If you XR, what kind of folding freq are you anticipating?
    2. If the answer to #1 is "high", what should happen to your bluff density?
    3. If the answer to #1 is "low", how do TPGK hands perform against it?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    I'm experimenting with check raising more TPGK+ hands to go with my sets and combo draw hands. Before I lose too much money curious what your thoughts are?

    1. If you XR, what kind of folding freq are you anticipating?
    2. If the answer to #1 is "high", what should happen to your bluff density?
    3. If the answer to #1 is "low", how do TPGK hands perform against it?

    By the end of the night, decided based on all the MW pots this wasn't the best idea. Just going to continue to bet around half pot on some of these static boards and will mix in some check raises with my bluffs and stronger holdings. Keep things polarized where its easy to continue or fold.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    In addition to having similar but less precisely-considered thoughts to @SplitSuit, I had two others:

    1) Despite the cliche, it's true: this is highly dependent on V and on your image.
    2) What are your goals for check-raising? Then you can determine if check-raising top-pair-decent-kicker hands align with those goals or not.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 955 ✭✭✭✭
    I find check raising in multi way pots with top pair to be very effective. Just betting into 4 players looks so strong, that check raising does not really look that much stronger. As I'm often giving up when I miss (at least if there is any action), it protects my checks.

    I often generate more action (get at least one bet) from top pair weaker kicker or second pair type hands if it checks through, or if I would bet and they would fold these as my bet into the world looks so strong. Players often also assume they have much higher implied odds in these games so, my flop check raise gets more money in against many draws, that brick the turn....

    And sometimes it allows me to get away from top pair type hands for less, as the action goes I check and it gets bet and raised before it gets back to me....and I can fold my check raise.

    I also get to pick up the players who like to make small bets into multi-way pots with week hands...I at least pick up the small bet, and also protect my range for when I check raise these bets as a bluff based on the bet sizing tell.

    And on at least on one occasion a short stack ed (bad regular), bet and shoved my check raise all in with 2nd pair because "he does not like check/raises"
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭
    Hard to answer a such a general question but MOST players play way too passive, so it makes sense to be sure you aren't most players :)
  • Baby_SharkBaby_Shark Red Chipper Posts: 74 ✭✭
    Are you x/r as the pfr? Or as a caller from the blinds? If it's a situation like utg raised pre (and often cbets), several more callers, and you flop strong from the BB, your x/r may sandwich in calls from other players on the flop (squeezing them on the flop). If these are fishy sticky players, you can use this tactic to extract more value with your tpgk. However, you'll be facing a bloated pot with a pair, so there are some variance issues to be sure.

    Really depends on opponents. If you're x/r a lot, they may call down lighter, which argues for a merged range, and more passive play with draws.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All great advice and every situation is different. Either as the caller or PFR, number of players, effective stacks, etc. Will have to post some hands for this.

    Typically I am check raising on QJ3ss wtih hands like 33, JJ, AQ, KK, AA, QJ, T9s, KTs, etc. Not too many KQ or QT hands in my typical check raise range. Might stick with the usual.
  • dnoyeBdnoyeB DetroitRed Chipper Posts: 284 ✭✭
    edited August 2018
    In live I mostly just check-raise when someone is getting out of line. I don't expect it to be profitable. Typically have a very strong hand and I think they will call due to their pride. But I'm really just applying pressure.

    Online I might do a vulnerable A or a strong draw if his bet sizing makes his holding look weak.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dnoyeB wrote: »
    In live I mostly just check-raise when someone is getting out of line. I don't expect it to be profitable. Typically have a very strong hand and I think they will call due to their pride. But I'm really just applying pressure.

    Online I might do a vulnerable A or a strong draw if his bet sizing makes his holding look weak.

    Why check raise if its not profitable?

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