Asking to see their stack seems to offend

Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,642 -
When players conceal their chips by the way they stack or how they are holding their hands, I might ask to see their stack.

I do this politely "May I please see your stack?"

The number of players that refuse, get offended or respond abusively is amazingly high.

Does anyone have insight into why this reaction is so common?
Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
Author Poker Plays You Can Use
Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks

Comments

  • Absolute_DisgraceAbsolute_Disgrace Brisbane, AustraliaRed Chipper Posts: 4 ✭✭
    Its never happened in games I've played. Now i'm super curious if its common for others?
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    To quote a poker pro that I have interacted with,

    "The player is under no obligation to answer. The Dealer is. At the first sign of stoopid, only interact with the dealer."

    That poker pro? @Doug Hull. :)

    Here's the thread (where I encountered something similar) and where you commented:

    https://forum.redchippoker.com/discussion/11420/odd-trash-talking-good-bet-come-back
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,268 -
    I think the point is the player is under an obligation to make their chips visible. In my experience in Vegas the people who get bent out of shape about this are typically from the NYC-Boston corridor. I don't know if that is a result of different rules or if it reflects different cultural norms between the US NE and SW.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • ChipFluxChipFlux Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    Yeah, the NE folks are aggro and rude culturally.
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,642 -
    Because it is just a courtesy to lift your hands and is usually just an oversight to be covering the chips, it seems a little passive aggressive *the first time* to ask the dealer to intervene.

    So yes, once this guy tonight (and others in the past) went aggro, I just went with the dealer (as I myself advise.)

    What I really don't understand is why some players take this as some kind of affront. The bile, rudeness and aggression that this simple, reasonable, well intentioned request elicits is so completely inappropriate and out of proportion that it goes beyond the normal rudeness I see at the tables.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • SicSemperSicSemper Red Chipper Posts: 101 ✭✭
    I'd wager it's because when another player is asking for a count on your stack, you're generally in trouble. If people get pissy, it's because they're afraid.
  • MistaCrowleyMistaCrowley Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    Common courtesy is to buy someone a drink or take them to dinner before asking to see their stack. Lol

    I haven’t seen too many aggressive people when the question gets asked, but I usually play in places with mostly western crowds. In all honesty though I feel like almost every time someone has asked me I’m usually in the lead and hoping for a raise.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,618 ✭✭✭✭✭
    unfamiliarity with the game lends itself to emotional reactions. no one ever has this problem in games higher than 2/5.
  • Albert AAlbert A Red Chipper Posts: 79 ✭✭
    I've been sitting here trying to think of some snappy come back to stand up for my apparently "culturally inept" East Coast brethren.... but I can't. It's true, to the rest of the country we come off as rude, abrasive, and aggressive; and to us the rest of the country comes off as a bunch of "Aunt Marys" who can't decide between quilt club or staying home with their Sleepy Time tea and a Golden Girls re run. When I was in the Army a kid from Missouri was giving me crap cause when he was a kid they went to Boston and he was waving to people walking down the street and they wouldn't wave back! I was like, Duh! Knucklehead! Walking in the street waving to people? No wonder they didn't wave back, you look like a......
    Ahhh, cultural differences...
    Anyway, imo, I think the more experienced/comfortable the player, the less upset they get. I don't see too many people get upset by it. They get pretty upset by other things, like if you river a flush on them (when they didn't even bet the turn). I got invited to the parking lot for that offense by a guy who truly looked like he had bodies stacked under his porch. I politely declined by the way.
    For the record, I couldn't care less if someone asks about my stack, although once someone asked what I had behind and I said in a wise tone, "More than you."
    And for all you Aunt Marys, don't get upset, this was all written with a grin. And if you're still upset.... "Ahhh, your sistahs ass!"
    Go Sox
  • Albert AAlbert A Red Chipper Posts: 79 ✭✭
    Sorry, just had my coffee:))
  • rabidjazzrabidjazz Red Chipper Posts: 101 ✭✭
    I play almost exclusively in MD and WV and rarely have this problem except with noobs who've never played in a casino before. So, it's not all of the east coast that behaves this way.

    -rJ
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    unfamiliarity with the game lends itself to emotional reactions. no one ever has this problem in games higher than 2/5.

    This is correct
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doug Hull wrote: »
    Does anyone have insight into why this reaction is so common?

    I know, it never ceases to amaze/amuse me. Lack of experience, and in general wanting to keep the game unsophisticated "who cares?" attitude.

    Some players genuinely can't possibly understand why just mucking their hand out of turn could possibly affect anyone else's play. So they're afraid you might know more about the game than them and use it to your advantage. For shame!

  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 915 ✭✭✭✭
    The one that always annoys me is players who get offended if I ask them to put there big chips in front or on top. Dealers let it slide all the time but its so obvious that it amazes me why people get annoyed.

    I had one guy tell me at blackjack you put the big chips on the bottom when you bet. Another guy told me his green chip would not affect the play of the hand as he had over $400 in red chips.....I kind of suggested that I liked that theory, as my income taxes, probably do not affect the Federal budget, so I guess I don't have to pay them.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭✭
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,268 -
    In tournaments this is obviously a serious issue that tends to get compounded by the rainbow of denominations in play. I've always wondered why the starting stacks aren't given to the players with the big chips on top to encourage players to present them in a reasonable way.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    I play 1/3, almost exclusively in Wisconsin and find myself needing to ask to see stacks all the time. Maybe it is just my generally friendly demeanor at the table, or Midwestern "niceness" culture, but it is an extremely rare occurrence for anyone to get bent out of shape. Generally, it's as simple as myself asking "How much you playing?" with a slight point at their stack, they quickly lift their hands and show me or readjust chips as necessary, and play proceeds without a hitch.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭✭
    It's that Canadian proximity...leaking into your casino...
  • Dean MDean M Red Chipper Posts: 177 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    unfamiliarity with the game lends itself to emotional reactions. no one ever has this problem in games higher than 2/5.

    This...

    Even at 2/5 it is rare as most of these players have at least begun to study the game.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭✭
    It's also rare with newcomers in casino, as they tend to be "ha ok sorry, I didn't know".

    I personaly never had any issue anywhere around the world when a stack wasn't visible, being because of hidden chips, hands hidings chips or sight blocked by dealer (from/to a corner).

    The few "emotional reaction" I witnessed was from people with hands which feared to play for stacks - as asking this question is rarely neutral.

    On the other side, I've also witnessed people asking, several time during the session, "How much do you have in play" with the sole aim to catch a tell from the respond - to see if the opponent is confident playing for his stacks or not. Bad poker etiquette...
  • Russ IRuss I Red Chipper Posts: 83 ✭✭
    This is bad etiquette? I'm not disagreeing, I just see people talk to their opponents all of the time to try to glean a tell. How is this different?
    Red wrote: »

    On the other side, I've also witnessed people asking, several time during the session, "How much do you have in play" with the sole aim to catch a tell from the respond - to see if the opponent is confident playing for his stacks or not. Bad poker etiquette...

  • Ruxton_AtheistRuxton_Atheist Red Chipper Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    Spend enough time in strategy forums or online, and you may forget that live games can still be very much a dick swinging contest. And you just asked to see his.
  • Stomper13Stomper13 Red Chipper Posts: 71 ✭✭
    edited October 10
    I had an older guy not only lose his shit when I asked to see his stack once and I mean he went off even though he had some big chips hidden behind a tower of small chips. This was a live $200 buy in tourney.
    The dealer made him put them.in front and I shoved my queen high straight on the river right after this. Then to make it worse he had a king high straight and though he lost so he started screaming and the dealer got confused and slid the chips my way. I being the decent person stopped her and explained that his stupid ass won lol.
    I still see him from time to time and he is still an ass just not to me and I gotta tell him to cool his shit sometimes with other people.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,268 -
    I think something to remember is that people play poker for different reasons, including the opportunity to be an ass.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 915 ✭✭✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I think something to remember is that people play poker for different reasons, including the opportunity to be an ass.

    I know I do it for the groupies. Any day now Ann Margret and Tuesday Weld will show up.
  • Martin DMartin D Red Chipper Posts: 79 ✭✭
    I think a certain type of person thinks you are asking the question to try and scare them, and thus reacts aggressively.

    Kat's explanation makes sense too.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,268 -
    Eazzy wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I think something to remember is that people play poker for different reasons, including the opportunity to be an ass.

    I know I do it for the groupies. Any day now Ann Margret and Tuesday Weld will show up.

    Eazzy, with references like that you must be nearly as old as me ;)
    Moderation In Moderation
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 915 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Eazzy wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I think something to remember is that people play poker for different reasons, including the opportunity to be an ass.

    I know I do it for the groupies. Any day now Ann Margret and Tuesday Weld will show up.


    Eazzy, with references like that you must be nearly as old as me ;)

    Yup.... For the kids out there

    4ci8uee8q950.jpg

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