QQ in the small blind

Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 221 ✭✭✭
Playing $1/$3 live at the MGM National Harbor outside D.C. on Sunday evening. About two hours into my session. Sitting with $590 in my stack and am dealt Qh Qc in the small blind.

The table is extremely passive with one solid reg sitting on my immediate right. MP1 raises to $12 and the hijack, cutoff and button (the strong playing reg) all call. I made a conscious decision not to three bet which is the first place I need some feedback.

My rationale being that I was going to have to act first on every street, MP has played extremely tight so the fact that's raising at all is indicative of a strong hand, and I was going to be way behind a large portion of the time if I did not catch a queen if any overcard fell. I'm sure that's a terrible decision overall, so feel free to excoriate as needed. Maybe because I do have to act first I need to be 3 betting to push out the mid to weak ace holdings...

In any event, the board comes Qd, Ad, 6c, so I've flopped my set. I elect to check here and I sort of struggled with this. My rationale was I want to see if the PFR was going to bet so I could raise but I did not want to risk the board checking aroudn and letting a flush draw pan out.

The PFR also elects to check but the cutoff bets $35 into the $63 pot. Button folds and the action is back to me. I raise to $100. Is this the right play here? I don't want a flush draw seeing a cheap card and I also want to build this pot a bit given that I am likely way ahead of villain in the cutoff. He's a fairly tight player but will 3-bet occasionally. He 4-bet jammed pocket aces about an hour prior so I have take that out of his range, I figure he's betting this flop with AK, AQ, KK, KQ or a set of sixes. Based on my experience playing against this guy, I really don't see him betting here without hitting the board, especially without being last to act.

So my confusion stems from how much to raise; I don't think calling here is the right play given the multi-way scenario and giving any draws behind me the pot odds to continue by calling. Appreciate any and all thoughts!

Comments

  • GGECKOGGECKO Washington, D.C.Red Chipper Posts: 110 ✭✭✭
    What's up, @Jordan Power!

    I put QQ into my 3-bet range regardless of position and would increase my bet size to reflect the OOP disadvantage. I guess my question is...what WOULD be in your 3-bet range? Obviously only 2 other hands that are better. Would you have 3-bet KK and AA? You had the 3rd best hand in poker at that point. 3-bet it all day long.

    I like the raise to $100 but not to make him pay him for his draws, rather to get value from your hand as you have the effective nuts. If he has a piece of the flop, then he will probably come along for the ride.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 221 ✭✭✭
    Yeah I should have noted the raise was for value, too. I thought V would continue with a good chunk of his range which I effectively dominated.
  • Dennis_LDennis_L Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
    I would have 3 bet preflop. I know that it can be nerve wracking to 3-bet, get called, and see an A or K on the flop, but if you are not 3-betting QQ here then you are not 3-betting nearly enough. You are way ahead of the other opponents ranges at the table and the equity of your hand decreases dramatically when you play it multi-way OOP. 3-betting here will narrow the field, pick up dead money, and increase the equity your hand has to win the pot. I would have made it anywhere from $45-$75 depending on the tables pre flop calling tendencies. Sometimes $45 will create a call train, which is not what we want.

    Based on the way you played it, raising is the right decision. I would make it slightly larger, probably around $115-$135. Making it $100 like you did isn't bad though, anything smaller would be problematic.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 221 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Dennis, totally agree on the 3-betting. I have to be doing that 100% of the time here with 10s+ and AK, AQs IMO. I chickened out, plain and simple (I took a nice break after this hand to refocus).

    Could you elaborate on the raise size? Why a larger sizing? I actually thought my raise may have been too large here and that it might discourage action. What's your thought here? @Dennis_L
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 914 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8
    firsts what are their stacks...Are they all sitting 200 deep...

    Like everyone else this is a 3 bet. for me it has nothing to do with if you don't 3 bet what is your 3 betting range (AHH not the place for gto balancing) this is an exploitative poker and your range crushes their ranges. Maybe its a limp if the original raiser only raises AA and KK or 3 bets regularly fold out AK and JJ...

    This is a great hand for squeezing. Then add the fact that you said the table is extremely passive. Yes against good agressive players with deep stacks, being oop may be a big problem for a 3 bet..but not here. So if they call your 3 bet....on an A or K over card, it will not bet that hard to play. Depending on how passive they are and bet sizing you can check and fold or check/call once....or it goes check /check check /check you bet 1/2 pot and get TT to call or whatever on an A high board.

    On the flop, you have to be thinking a bit more on pot sizes and remaining stack sizes. Again I only know you stack size.

    pots 60 and the bet is $35..

    if he has 580 behind with you....

    So how do we get this in by the river....I like to think of betting half my stack on the river as a starting point (I tend to round so thats 600)....that means a 300 on the river that means roughly speaking need say 100 on the flop 200 on the turn and 300 on the river...we get it all in.
    That give you 200 into 260 on the turn, and 300 into 660 on the river, might be callable bets by say An AK that can convince himself you missed the flush...and easily callable by bigger hands.... So a check raise to 100 ish works here.

    As the board is drawy,,,we may want to get this in faster....that is more money on the flop and the turn....a pot size check raise on the flop (3 * 35 + 60) is 165....so say we try....150 that give 360 and 450 behind for an over shove.. I would like this if the Ace was not a club, so he could have top pair and a draw....

    You could chunk the turn and river....that is 150 on the flop 200 on the turn...and then 250 on the river.....This works if your opponent is a bit sticky with his draws and keeps hands like AK in on the turn, that may now feel commited for 250 into the 700 pot on the river....

    With out better descriptions of the cutoff which plan might work better is a little hard to say.....in general deep players over value implied odds, and get sticky on the flop, with medium hands figuring you will slow down with draws...so byde fault I'm going bigger on the flop, and probably chunking up the turn and river...Against gambly players I'm big on flop shoving the turn....and against more aggro I might take a donk re-raise line on the flop leaving an easy shove for the turn.









  • BenLeewoodBenLeewood Red Chipper Posts: 285 ✭✭
    3 bet small and lead the flop is pretty standard here.

    But that being said, I've flatted many times with QQ when there is a raise and multiple callers. The reason being that you know that at least a couple of them have an Ace and King (hopefully multiple).

    But when the flop comes Ace or King AND a Queen......this is a big money hand. Look to double up or stack someone. I used to think, "well, I should continue trapping here" but thats wrong. The trap was already set by just flatting. To get stacks in, you need to lead and hope to get raised by AK or AQ.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your raising and leading range is very low frequency on this flop. If you call pre, check call flop as most of your continuing range wants to, and take action on the turn when equities change.

    This play is a spaz on the flop and was correctly countered.

    In the other hand, you bet bottom pair and a weak flush draw, another low frequency play. Your wagering logic is all equity driven and non-strategic.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 221 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Your raising and leading range is very low frequency on this flop. If you call pre, check call flop as most of your continuing range wants to, and take action on the turn when equities change.

    This play is a spaz on the flop and was correctly countered.

    In the other hand, you bet bottom pair and a weak flush draw, another low frequency play. Your wagering logic is all equity driven and non-strategic.

    I think I agree with what you're saying but could you elaborate? I am not sure I truly understand.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Your raising and leading range is very low frequency on this flop. If you call pre, check call flop as most of your continuing range wants to, and take action on the turn when equities change.

    This play is a spaz on the flop and was correctly countered.

    In the other hand, you bet bottom pair and a weak flush draw, another low frequency play. Your wagering logic is all equity driven and non-strategic.

    I think I agree with what you're saying but could you elaborate? I am not sure I truly understand.

    Start with this sentence -- "Your wagering logic is all equity driven and non-strategic." -- and then put the rest into its context.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    Stack sizes really help here.

    I think his point is what do you ever raise here? Sure, you can raise AQ, but you block him holding AQ, if he's smart he can safely fold AK, AJ, and A10 now, he isn't really incentivized to bet :KD: :JD: , as run outs help him, and raises in MW pots like this are often, however, since it was checked to him, sometimes he feels he can just take the pot down now...so he might bet his J10, KJ, K10 diamonds. It's so funny because I used to crush MGM by what I'm come to now realize which was actually pretty bad. I guess it's just like pretty apparent that you have 66, AQ, or an unlikely J10, KJ, K10 of diamonds.


    So I think the correct play is to flat, the MGM derp play is to just ship it cause people freak out with draws, and if this guy's got like $200~ to start, he's prob not folding AK, AQ, 66, or diamond draws. Even throw in some solid speech play like if he try's to talk to you like "mmmm I mean I don't mind taking the pot now. I got a lot of good cards that can come." cause people spaz out with draws, andddddd MGM is notorious for loose gambly play.

    Either way, blah blah 3-bet every1 else said it before.
  • Dennis_LDennis_L Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Thanks Dennis, totally agree on the 3-betting. I have to be doing that 100% of the time here with 10s+ and AK, AQs IMO. I chickened out, plain and simple (I took a nice break after this hand to refocus).

    Could you elaborate on the raise size? Why a larger sizing? I actually thought my raise may have been too large here and that it might discourage action. What's your thought here? @Dennis_L

    I think that a majority of the hands that will call the raise to $100 will also call a raise to $120 or something. Since were so far ahead of opponents range, I like to make it a bit larger. Yes this is exploitative, but this is $1/$3 and a majority of opponents do not pick this sizing tell.

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