QJd in 3-way 3-bet pot

Paul SALTERPaul SALTER Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
Looking for feedback and additional opinions to improve my game.

$2/$3 at 9-person table. Max buy-in for this game WAS $300 but casino re-opened after 6 weeks and to appease the regulars, lifted the max buy-in to $900 - this is relevant for context.

I've been playing for ~6 hours and bought in with $300 - current stack size at time of hand was $950.

Two new players both sit down (it's ~10:00pm) and buy-in with $900 each. Within one orbit, EACH player has played 5/9 hands - small sample size, but fairly loose.

HAND:

EP1 opens for $15
MP1 3bets to $40
folds around to me in CO with QJs (diamonds)
EP1 completes and 3 to the flop:

FLOP: 6d 9c 10d

EP1 bets $85/~$120
MP1 calls
Hero calls

TURN: 6s

EP1 bets $150/~$375
MP1 calls
Hero...

I ended up folding.

RIVER: 8h (I made the straight)

EP1 checks
MP1 checks

EP1 mucks and MP1 shows KK and takes down the pot.

OFF-TABLE STUDY:

1. I ran the numbers after the fact and after the flop, needed ~41% equity to continue and using a specific range for EP1 and plugging in KK (since I knew it) I had a 45% according to Poker Cruncher. Calling was fine ... PROS OF RAISING!?
2. After the turn 6, I was weary of a boat from either player. Also weary of reverse implied odds if I hit my straight. Needed 29% equity to continue and estimate I had 23%, so it appears folding WAS CORRECT?

PERSONAL NOTES: Stacking off with $950 (compared to ~$300) was a bit out of my comfort zone given this new deep stack situation is one I have little experience with. I think that prevented an aggressive re-raise on the flop....but even now I wonder...then what after a 6 hit on the turn.

I'm also likely a bit "meh" knowing I hit the straight on the river.

SIDE NOTE: I played for stacks the very next hand against that EP1 when I flopped two pair with AK...all ended okay that night :).

Tagged:

Comments

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11
    Your cold call range is or will be perceived to be 99-jj heavy. Maybe you have 87s. You're supposed to use this to your advantage in order to support hands like qjs on their boards.

    Mp1 has only some sets in this configuration. We can deduce this from handreading through positional protection.

    Ep1 has a set far more infrequently for a different reason, as his leading range will mostly be non-existent in a three bet pot, as he should not give you the chance to fold, nor bet into your now uncapped range without TTT, if ever. His line says he is a button clicker who is pot controlling a pair. It is no surprise he was later stacked.

    So folding because of ep, at least, is irrational. Mp can have some nut hands, but likely fewer than the sets available. Nor will he always flat call the lead with ttt or 999.

    Having taken a calling line, you still remain uncapped based on the board, meaning you can win without making your hand. You are subsidized by the price, which you should be highly sensitive to, as that means errors such as this terrible line from ep1 can be punished.

    Can't blame you for folding, but the above factors indicate other options available and clearer thinking possible in the next spot.

    Additionally, even at 300 bbs, your cold call does have some passive dead money in it, as ep1 is uncapped and should find some fourbets to which you will fold. I'd just live with that given players.
  • Paul SALTERPaul SALTER Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    @persuadeo I appreciate you taking the time to review and provide feedback. You make excellent points, specifically about capped/uncapped ranges. In hindsight, yes, I have such a clearer vision of each range - lessons learned for the next similar situation :)
  • Ronnie KwokRonnie Kwok Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
    First I want to say, I don't mind the fold on the turn, even though it is a very passive line. I like folding so much better than calling in this spot. MP1 really reps a strong range when he took a 3bet pre, call flop with you behind, and call again on turn again when you have yet to act. However, a strong range in this board when only called never equate to full houses. The same reason as the above, you have yet to act. As per @persuadeo your range is truly uncapped, you can have a lot of other full houses in your range when they can only have 10's full. So if mp1 have 10's full, he almost always will raise this turn, especially when EP1 bet so small into 2 callers, MP1 definitely needs to get value. With that, I feel the best line should be jamming here a lot.

    I do however want to ask what is your 3bet cold calling range here? Do you have a set range? or do you have exploitative range in this spot. I'm not trying to criticize your preflop call, with 300bb deep, calling with QJs is definitely fine. I just want to ask have you ever consider 4betting? Are you only 4betting with the top of your range? Also, will you flatting the 3bet if you have QQs + AK? Furthermore, do you have small suited connectors in this spot? The reason for the question is your preflop range dictates so much of you post flop actions.

    I also want to ask the most important question of them all is why don't you raise on the flop? Remember, you got the best possible flop for your hand. The SPR are over 8.5 to 1 in a multiway pot. This is a very strong hand that can play for stacks on the flop. What is the reason for you not wanting to do that? Do you know if you hit your flush, you are more than likely not going to get your stack in? Are you comfortable playing for stacks at this point? If not, why? is it money scare? is it you don't feel it's the right play? if so, why. I really want to know.

    FYI, my stack would've went in by the turn, 1 way or the other.
  • Ronnie KwokRonnie Kwok Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
    By the way, I understand you are not very comfortable with deep stack situation, if that's the case, your off table work should be on deep stacks. Because with cash games, ability to play deep stack are the difference between a very profitable winner to a bordeline loser.
  • Paul SALTERPaul SALTER Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    @Ronnie Kwok thank you for the stellar feedback. Addressing your points/comments/questions below, mainly to type out and reiterate in my own mind :)

    In hindsight, I think a 4Bet would've been a solid play. I'm used to a $300 max buy-in so a 4bet typically means a shove where I play...4betting with deep stacks is an area for growth in my game.

    Need to stop and think more about range advantage and how a card helps/hurts each player's range.

    At the time of play, my 4bet range (which would be a shove in most of my games), would have been QQ+, AK, and likely 78 and 9/10s.

    Why didn't I raise on the flop? Great question! In hindsight and my approach/game before this hand I would've 100% of the time. The extra large stacks took me out of my element and I became passive. Lesson learned.

    Thanks again!

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file