What a min-raise

DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 127 ✭✭
edited October 2018 in Live Poker Hands
Game: 25NL 6max

Hero: SB--$24.60-- :As:Tc
V1: BB--$28.84
V2: UTG--$8.89
V3: HJ--$25.89

About 20ish hands in, the only specific things I had on anyone in this hand that stood out was that V3 folds to postflop pressure both on the flop and turn (frequently on the turn). V1 and V2 limped about 75% of the hands I saw, but got pretty loose postflop.

Preflop: V2 limps, V3 limps, Hero completes from SB, V1 min-raises. V2/V3 and hero call
Pot: $2.75
*I completed and opted not to iso here; with multiple limpers, and a decent hand but in SB, screamed "just complete" to me.

Flop: :Th:Ts:Qd
Hero checks, V1 bets $1.00, V2 folds, V3 calls, hero calls
Pot: $5.75
*I considered a x/r in this spot, something like 2-2.5x...However, I did not, seeing as I viewed this flop as a static one, and myself having the best hand so far. I flatted to keep them in the hand. I understand that was probably my first mistake. (Of course, QT crushes me)

I assign (Q9+, 66+, J8s+, KTs/o, ATs/o--AJs/o, T7s+) to V1 since this is the villain that's significant in this hand. I assumed I would see a larger raise from V1 with TT+/AQ+--is this accurate?

Turn: :Jd

Hero bets $5.00, V1 calls, V3 folds.
Pot: $15.75
*I wanted to start aggressing here, I felt I was ahead even with the jack on the turn. I also strongly felt a close to pot sized bet would get V3 to fold so I can get to a HU pot with V1 should he call. My plan for the river was to check it to V1, and based on the size of the bet, I would either x/r, or flat. I will gladly take advice here.

River: :6c
Hero checks, V1 bets pot, hero calls, V1 shows :Ac:Kh

*I'll be honest here, my gut absolutely without hesitation called AK for villain here (because that's typically what this bet size means on the river at this level), even with the brick river....but, I decided to stick with my river plan, basically I didn't want to call the turn (or in this case lead) only to fold the river. I also did not put AK in V1's range whatsoever. Splitsuit has stated before "If he didn't have XX in the preflop range you assigned him, he can't all of the sudden have it on the river."


  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 530 ✭✭✭
    No, don't complete this here. You're going to be acting first in every round of betting, the more people behind you, the more chances you're going to get pushed out of the pot by someone in position.

    And also, you have a decent hand, so don't you want people putting more money in the pot with some hands they've already signaled as marginal and likely worse than yours by limping? (I'm being a total hypocrite here because I limped this same hand in my last session in the same situation and it went totally sideways for me because I let these marginal type hands stay in. Hit trips while 25 of clubs drew out on me on turn and fortunately V only had 90 in his stack because it all got in.) So I can tell you from very recent experience that this can be a very bad idea.

    Now based on what V showed up with, you probably get 3 bet and then are put to a decision, but I'm going to try to ignore what V showed up with. (I find not disclosing the result of the hand gets me better feedback.)

    I would have raised the flop. The way I look at this flop, both Vs probably connected with this board in some way, although you hit it pretty hard. QT dominates you, sure, but IMO one can't make decisions based upon V flopping a boat. This board has plenty of combos of Qx holdings for Vs, OESDs, gut shots, that you want to make may for the opportunity to draw. I think plenty of Vs are going to continue here with a large enough chunk of their range to make a raise profitable. A min raise, or close to it gives both Vs a great price on their draws. So yeah, I would probably raise here.

    The Jack filling is tough because 89 got there, AK got there, and in a MW pot, you certainly now have even more combos of hands that are able to draw to the river with the back door flush draw coming into play. So betting pot here into a board where some draws filled seems to me to be a bad idea. I think this bet should really have been the raise on the flop.
  • DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 127 ✭✭
    @Jordan Power

    Thank you as always for the input. I agree with what you're saying because it makes sense. If I am understanding you correctly, instead of completing, we should have considered a 3bet (perhaps even a light one) pre? Also, really good point on the multiple draws that connected with the flop, I now realize why I should have bet the flop. Checking the turn now sounds like a much better idea as well seeing as villain with AK probably would have spoken up.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭✭
    What sense does it make to not check-raise flop but donkbet turn somehow big ?
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 530 ✭✭✭
    Wait you wouldn't have been 3-betting, right? You were in SB and BB was the one who raised? In any event I don't think a light raise is the ticket there. I'd take it to like 6-7BB here, 'punish the limpers' and all that.

    I hope other more experienced players weigh in about the post flop play; I personally see how a ton of Vs are going to connect with that board in some way whether via a direct hit or a draw, so I would want to give them a larger price on their draw but let's see what others say.
  • DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 127 ✭✭
    @Jordan Power

    Correct, I opted to flat here fro BB's raise, in a blind vs blind scenario, I guess I got scared of playing ATo OOP here in a MW pot. I will look to not repeat this mistake again, as what you are saying sounds like a much more intelligent line to take here.


    It does not, I have learned since in conjunction with Jordan's point that betting the flop here would have been a much better line to take, vs what I chose to do

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