Folding QQ preflop

accessdeniedx2accessdeniedx2 Red Chipper Posts: 29 ✭✭
I apologize for not using a hand converter here:

I'm playing 1/2 no limit. Effective stacks are 250. 10 players. Main villain is utg, OMC, and I've played with him for about 3 years approximately 2x a month. In that time, I've seen him open raise maybe 20 times.

He open limps this hand. Folds to MP who opens to 15$. Folds to me in MP2 and I 3bet to 45$ with QQ.

Fold around to the button who calls, then back to Villain who 4bets to 100$. I tank for a long time before I fold.

All I can think is what kind of range open limps and then 4bets? The best range I could put him on was AK, AA, or KK and I'm only doing well against AK. I guess if you consider combos, there are 16 combos of AK and 12 combos of AA and KK.

Maybe I'm just having a problem folding QQ pre because I keep replaying this in my head and I'm back and forth on calling, folding, or 5bet shove.

Button also folded 10s face up and agreed with me later.... What is OMC limp/4betting with?

Comments

  • accessdeniedx2accessdeniedx2 Red Chipper Posts: 29 ✭✭
    Original raiser in MP also folded, but never showed
  • LoveFishLoveFish IllinoisRed Chipper Posts: 85 ✭✭
    Sounds like a good fold!
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,710 -
    This is the classic OMC AA+ range. You will almost never see AKs here even. Depending on stack depth, consider set mining.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • Fernando OFernando O Red Chipper Posts: 75 ✭✭
    Unless OMC went through a dramatic transformation of personality and decided to die like a lion rather than live like a dog, your QQ isn’t even at the bottom of his top.

    F
  • WannabeFarhaWannabeFarha Red Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
    Good fold based on solid observations imo.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    Yeah it's a fold here based on your observations.

    I had a very similar situation to this a few weeks ago. Laid down QQ against a lady OMC. She had not played a hand in 3 hours. She put in her blinds and NOTHING ELSE did not see a single flop in 3 hours and was happily reading a book on her kindle.

    I get dealt QQ in MP and she limps UTG which people instantly start talking about. It got to me and, already suspicious, I seriously want to just limp because I just FEEL the raise is coming if I raise. I raise to $15, it folds back to her. She jams for $109. I fold. She flips over her aces, snaps her fingers scrapes up her chips, tips the dealer $10 and goes back to reading her book.

    SAME THING happens to another player an hour later except he doesn't lay down his kings. She doubles up, tips dealer $25, snapping her fingers. I think she's still there to this day, reading a murder mystery, waiting for aces and slowly slipping into oblivion.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭
    I get dealt QQ in MP and she limps UTG which people instantly start talking about. It got to me and, already suspicious, I seriously want to just limp because I just FEEL the raise is coming if I raise. I raise to $15, it folds back to her. She jams for $109. I fold. She flips over her aces, snaps her fingers scrapes up her chips, tips the dealer $10 and goes back to reading her book.
    IMHO with such a read and guts feeling, you've spewed 13$.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    I get dealt QQ in MP and she limps UTG which people instantly start talking about. It got to me and, already suspicious, I seriously want to just limp because I just FEEL the raise is coming if I raise. I raise to $15, it folds back to her. She jams for $109. I fold. She flips over her aces, snaps her fingers scrapes up her chips, tips the dealer $10 and goes back to reading her book.
    IMHO with such a read and guts feeling, you've spewed 13$.

    See I actively thought to myself you do not have enough experience to trust your gut here, raise your damn queens. Most reluctant raise of a premium hand ever. At least I laid it down facing the raise. And it was $1/$3, so I spewed $12, if I am spewing ;)
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭
    You need a plan (I feel I'm repeating myself in your various threads...).
    If you think she is only moving in with AA (or KK+, or QQ+), then your plan is to see a flop as cheap as possible and stack her when you hit 2P+ .
    The worst is to raise, allowing her to make you play her game.
    A guts feeling is when you face similar situation many times and how your previous games were. A instinct of playing better than the previous games with the previous mistakes you made. Trust your guts. (And have a plan.)
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    The plan here was to raise and if she shoved to fold. I don't see this as spewing either. I think raising with a premium hand and laying it down to a 3-bet is a fine plan without an observable information other than she's tight. Your advice stems from knowing the outcome of this one (which I posted only to piggy back on OP, so my apologies for injecting the bias in there).

    I don't think I should be risking playing QQ MW just because of a gut feeling that is backed by 0 observable evidence other than she's not playing any hands.

    (Going forward, I obviously do what you say knowing what I know now. But in the moment, I felt the risk of playing QQ MW in a limped pot was a much worse scenario than a potential limp/reraise.)
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭
    3 hours without playing a hand is an obvious observable information :)
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    3 hours without playing a hand is an obvious observable information :)

    It's certainly information but it confirms nothing. The alternative is playing queens MW which is going to go ever worse for me. But I get you're just being contrary at this point.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    3 hours without playing a hand is an obvious observable information :)

    It's certainly information but it confirms nothing. The alternative is playing queens MW which is going to go ever worse for me. But I get you're just being contrary at this point.

    You can never be sure. Poker is a game of incomplete information.

    Now if you can observe a frequency, like playing 1 hand in 3 hours, you can have an educated guess. 3 hours it's around 60 hands; which means she has a VPIP of what... 1.5% ? What is a 1.5% range ? QQ+.
    Even if I (you?) am no online player, this podcast is interesting https://redchippoker.com/turning-hud-stats-real-ranges-podcast/

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