Sevens Under the Gun: Any problems with this line?

Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
$1/$3 NL at MGM National Harbor. Hero is dealt :7S: :7H: under the gun and sits with $680 behind. Hero limps; table was very loose and we had not had a limped pot in about an hour. Highly confident someone would raise. Hijack does raise to $15 and button and hero call.

Hijack: ~$200 behind. Played with him a number of times. Weak player, fit or folder, Can be pushed off anything short of top two pair with enough pressure. Range I am pretty confident in: 22+, 78s+, 9To+, K8+,Q8+,J7+, A5s+, A8o+ and all broadway hands.

Button: ~$480 behind. Seems laggy but never played with him. Talks a ton about other people's hands, clearly trying to show off talking about pot odds, implied odds, etc. Making wildly incorrect statements at times. I widened this guy's range based on what I had seen him get to showdown with: 22+, 23s+,67o+ K8+, Q8+, J7+, T8s, A2+ all broadway hands. Had not 3-bet in session.

Flop: :7H: :AD: :5c: Pot is $47

Hero checks, hijack (PFR) checks, and hijack checks as well. Any reason for hero to bet here? With the ace out there, it's conceivable someone hits top pair and bets it even though based on their ranges, they don't hit this board too heavily. I had thought at the time that if I bet into HJ, he would fold out weak aces and I don't want him to do that so I just checked.

Turn is :8S: taking all flush draws out of possibility. Hero bets $20, less than 1/2 pot and gets two callers.

River is :3d:

At this point, I assumed I have the best hand here 99% of the time (pokercruncher says 97%), how should hero proceed to maximize value?. The pot is $107.

I considered 3 options:

1) Check, hoping to raise (I rated this as my worst option given that the bet was going to have to come from the button as hijack liked to see cheap showdowns).

2) Bet $65, about 2/3 pot.

3) $30 underbet in an attempt to induce button to raise to try to stab while also bringing along most of hijacks range as well.

Are there any other options I should have considered here? (I instantly ruled out a full pot or over bet as unlikely to get any callers which I think reasonable here).

Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    $1/$3 NL at MGM National Harbor. Hero is dealt :7S: :7H: under the gun and sits with $680 behind. Hero limps; table was very loose and we had not had a limped pot in about an hour. Highly confident someone would raise. Hijack does raise to $15 and button and hero call.
    But why play your hand so poorly by limping? Do you have an aggro balanced limping strategy?
    If no, just open ! You let sooooooo many chips on this table.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    $1/$3 NL at MGM National Harbor. Hero is dealt :7S: :7H: under the gun and sits with $680 behind. Hero limps; table was very loose and we had not had a limped pot in about an hour. Highly confident someone would raise. Hijack does raise to $15 and button and hero call.
    But why play your hand so poorly by limping? Do you have an aggro balanced limping strategy?
    If no, just open !

    Is it really so bad to limp a mid pocket pair UTG at a table simply not seeing limped pots? I'm going to have to play this hand OOP the overwhelming majority of the time and lay it down to a 3-bet should I raise. I only do this UTG.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    If instead of the great A75r you hit A85r (or JT2 or K96, or... any of the 89% of flop you don't hit your set), still OOP - and with a strongly capped range. How do you make money? How can you bluff?
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    I can't at all, but people at this table were loose, sticky, and basically gambling. I don't really have many opportunities based on the entire table in aggregate to apply pressure and bluff someone off a hand. People call down a ton. Wouldn't I be burning $ trying to bluff in this situation?
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    I can't at all, but people at this table were loose, sticky, and basically gambling. I don't really have many opportunities based on the entire table in aggregate to apply pressure and bluff someone off a hand. People call down a ton. Wouldn't I be burning $ trying to bluff in this situation?

    Stop betting too little, so you avoid playing MW against loose gambly Villains. Punish them ! Use a merged range and overly expensive bets (like opening 30$, attacking limpers at 50$, etc.)
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    Totally agree with that and generally do that but UTG with 7s I don't think is the time at this type of table. Beyond that, any thoughts on the post flop line?
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 280 ✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    I can't at all, but people at this table were loose, sticky, and basically gambling. I don't really have many opportunities based on the entire table in aggregate to apply pressure and bluff someone off a hand. People call down a ton. Wouldn't I be burning $ trying to bluff in this situation?

    Stop betting too little, so you avoid playing MW against loose gambly Villains. Punish them ! Use a merged range and overly expensive bets (like opening 30$, attacking limpers at 50$, etc.)

    @Red I think this is sound advice, but wonder how far down your UTG merged range extends. 77 feels very borderline, but I guess the bottom has to be somewhere. If we're going to be making large raises that strengthen the IP continuing ranges behind us, we'd better make sure we're strapped for war and not playing too many hands closer to the middle.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    Don't nit up

    At what point did I nit up here? I can't call a 3-bet, I'm first to act, and there are minimal bluffing opportunities AND I'm nearly certain someone is going to raise to get some weaker hands out of the way.

    Given that I have minimal opportunities to bluff if I miss my set, why is letting someone else raise, avoiding a potential 3-bet, and trying to mine a set the wrong play here? I'm going to raise these 7s in most other scenarios (maybe UTG+1 limp as well if person folded prior) but I don't want to give 9 people the chance to 3-bet me on a table full of calling stations I can't bluff later. Remember this is my thinking post flop. When I get the one V who is going to fold to aggression going in as PFR, things change. But the table as a whole was sticky.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    3bet pre-flop?
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    3bet pre-flop?

    Would have been a great spot to take it to $45 after the limp and collect the pot, yeah. HJ would have been gone without aces or kings and as I found out from playing with other V more, he was so wide he would fold a ton to 3-bets.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    3bet pre-flop?

    Would have been a great spot to take it to $45 after the limp and collect the pot, yeah. HJ would have been gone without aces or kings and as I found out from playing with other V more, he was so wide he would fold a ton to 3-bets.

    ...and, given your descriptions of your opponents in this hand, you would be in good shape if either called: you'd still have a lot of fold equity on a lot of boards on the flop.
  • Paul_KPaul_K DFWRed Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭✭
    I think you should lead this flop. HJ opened so I can’t imagine him folding top pair when he hits. Along that line, if he’s as passive as you mention then he’s not betting his underpairs and unmade hands. I’d be looking to stack HJ.

    Button is welcome to come along, but seems unlikely with his flat range.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 394 ✭✭✭
    3bet pre-flop?

    Would have been a great spot to take it to $45 after the limp and collect the pot, yeah. HJ would have been gone without aces or kings and as I found out from playing with other V more, he was so wide he would fold a ton to 3-bets.

    ...and, given your descriptions of your opponents in this hand, you would be in good shape if either called: you'd still have a lot of fold equity on a lot of boards on the flop.

    I was almost going to respond with disagreement given 'just' having 77, but I have to remember: they don't know I have 7s. I can certainly rep a really strong holding on a ton of boards and they'll miss a lot of the time, too.
  • Paul_KPaul_K DFWRed Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭✭
    Also agree with Red regarding preflop. Limp calling UTG seriously caps you vs even casually observant players. By raising, you can cbet this board type when you miss.

    If your UTG raise is met w/ a 3b, you can consider the strength and decide. You’re 200bb deep and can profitably set mine if your 3 bettor is deep as well.

    Raise folding UTG can actually be a good thing for your image and may induce some light 3b down the line.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    Roblivion wrote: »
    Red wrote: »
    I can't at all, but people at this table were loose, sticky, and basically gambling. I don't really have many opportunities based on the entire table in aggregate to apply pressure and bluff someone off a hand. People call down a ton. Wouldn't I be burning $ trying to bluff in this situation?

    Stop betting too little, so you avoid playing MW against loose gambly Villains. Punish them ! Use a merged range and overly expensive bets (like opening 30$, attacking limpers at 50$, etc.)

    @Red I think this is sound advice, but wonder how far down your UTG merged range extends. 77 feels very borderline, but I guess the bottom has to be somewhere. If we're going to be making large raises that strengthen the IP continuing ranges behind us, we'd better make sure we're strapped for war and not playing too many hands closer to the middle.

    Does 77 fits your range depends on your strategy and plan. You can play more tight (and rather avoid mid pairs playing EP) or more loose (and play all PP). But you need a plan.

    Not only preflop, but also anticipate what's going to happen postflop. When I open 22 UTG+1, it's not (only) to flop a set. It's because it fits a strategy as a whole.
    Totally agree with that and generally do that but UTG with 7s I don't think is the time at this type of table. Beyond that, any thoughts on the post flop line?

    @Jordan Power Here, don't nit up. If you stop playing ok hands and focus on great hands, you're playing too tight and letting a ton of money on the table. Yes, you'll be +EV. But you won't max your winnings.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is it really so bad to limp a mid pocket pair UTG at a table simply not seeing limped pots? I'm going to have to play this hand OOP the overwhelming majority of the time and lay it down to a 3-bet should I raise. I only do this UTG.

    let's take a step back:
    what hands WOULD you open from UTG?
    what sizing would you use?
    if you got 3-bet, how would you proceed?
    how much would it take me to get you fold QQ pre from UTG?

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