hitting a straight on a paired Broadway board

EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
Playing 1-2

Villain...older guy, has shown very little aggression, not a nit but a slightly tight reg. As there were a lot loose players in the game I had not really noticed him much.

Hero....looks tight, running cold so folding a lot, but raises, and a couple of 3 bets in the last two or so hours. Don't know if villain is aware at all.

:Kh :Td in the bb ... effective stacks 200

Villain in early position limps 3 other limpers, and I check my option.

Flop 5 way 10 ish

:Ac :Ad :Js

I check and it checks through

Turn

:Qc

I bet 10, and villain min raises to 20.....I make it 60 and villain calls....

River 2 way 130

:6c

I make a $40 blocker bet...

Think I totally screwed this hand up...appreciate any thoughts.

Comments

  • In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 150 ✭✭
    From my pocket notes:

    "The fishy min-raise is a siren. Listen to it. Respect its power."

    Your raise to 60 is in violation of this principle.
  • Phil EbbsPhil Ebbs Red Chipper Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November 5
    I actually don't hate the turn re-raise, since V's limp range probably has tons of trips with a weak kicker, and you don't want the river to go check-check. Do you think AQ and AJ are in his limp/flop-check range? Even if so, there are just not that many combos available.

    His turn raising range is probably a couple trapped boats, some straights, flush draws, and stronger trips. I'd mostly be concerned about a flush here, but I think you might be ahead of too many hands to check this down. I think betting half pot and folding to a raise (you have no club) is a fine way to play it. Going for a check-call is probably also fine.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭✭
    Questions:
    -Would V ever take this line with Ax (that's not AQ or AJ)?
    -Could V ever realistically here have AA, QQ, or JJ?

    Depending on these answers, your hand might become entirely a bluff-catching hand. If that is the case, then would you ever re-raise the turn or use a river blocking bet? Probably not.

    If, however, the answers to the questions above suggest that this is a value hand more often than not, then your play has more merit.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    It just dawned on me I screwed this post up kind of badly.

    The flop was :Ad :As :Jc

    so he could have :Ac :Xc in his hand....does this change your thoughts....
  • Phil EbbsPhil Ebbs Red Chipper Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November 5
    Oh. then I'd probably lean more towards a check-call, but I do like betting half-pot some of the time. Maybe 25%/75% bet-fold/check-call?

    having a good read on V is important here. If he has limped anything like unsuited AX in the past, he has just so many trips here. I'm way, way more worried about the fact that a club came in than that he has trapped a boat.
  • SPI3423SPI3423 Red Chipper Posts: 1 ✭✭
    edited November 6
    honestly, I think the best line on the turn is just to call the min-raise, and just check-call river. 3-betting turn seems to be an overplay, tight old guys can limp AJ/AQ, maybe even QQ/JJ some percentage of the time (depending on how tight you think he is preflop, given your description it sounds this is pretty possible), and all of these combos are in his range. We 3-bet the turn to get value from like AK/AT and possibly worse Ax, but I'm not sure if those hands are really raise turn at a high frequency, tight-ish, he can have Axcc at some frequency, but that's not too many combos of hands. Feels like Ax mostly just calls

    as played on the river, should probably just be a check-call/check fold honestly. I depending if you think he's paying off with Ax here, I'm not super convince he does, espeically when clubs come in. I understand your thought process of trying to get value from Ax, but there's now even fewer combos with a portion of them (Axcc getting there). I don't even honestly hate a check-fold on the river, I doubt he value bets Ax on the river, and you're really hopping he has KT as well and you're choping. Given your description old guys tend to miss thin value spots, so he's probably just checking back AK, and he's probably not bluffing here at a high frequency, so I really don't mind making an exploitative fold on the river.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You have essentially no nutted value hands that support a turn three bet, hence this line is an exact example of spew.
  • SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 719 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    You have essentially no nutted value hands that support a turn three bet, hence this line is an exact example of spew.

    I wouldn't say exact. I've spewed in some truly epic, textbook ways that to seem to fit the "exact" moniker more closely

    Good spew seems more apropos here IMO :)
  • Phil EbbsPhil Ebbs Red Chipper Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November 6
    persuadeo wrote: »
    You have essentially no nutted value hands that support a turn three bet, hence this line is an exact example of spew.

    He has no objectively nutted hands, but his hand is pretty nutted against V's limp/flop-check range, don't you think? Don't you think V is showing up here with trips very very often?
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In general, yes, a forked limping range will also be capped, but I'd prefer a player to recognize and respect their own range first before assuming they can just lean on someone else's.
  • Faustovaldez123Faustovaldez123 RCP Coach Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭
    Eazzy wrote: »
    Playing 1-2

    Villain...older guy, has shown very little aggression, not a nit but a slightly tight reg. As there were a lot loose players in the game I had not really noticed him much.

    Hero....looks tight, running cold so folding a lot, but raises, and a couple of 3 bets in the last two or so hours. Don't know if villain is aware at all.

    :Kh :Td in the bb ... effective stacks 200

    Villain in early position limps 3 other limpers, and I check my option.

    Flop 5 way 10 ish

    :Ac :Ad :Js

    I check and it checks through

    Turn

    :Qc

    I bet 10, and villain min raises to 20.....I make it 60 and villain calls....

    River 2 way 130

    :6c

    I make a $40 blocker bet...

    Think I totally screwed this hand up...appreciate any thoughts.

    Make sure u are clear on what ure targetting on the turn. Raising cause ure not sure will get u in trouble and this is indicative of ure river sizing and reason. In my eyes villain could have numerous Ax, anything stronger and he will likely go bigger and doubtful he has a FD.
    COACHING NOW AVAILABLE HERE

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