Taking SCs 5 ways to a flop

DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
edited November 7 in Online Poker Hands
Hi RCP,

Wanted to present this hand with some specific questions as well. I traditionally only play 6max cash online, but recently I decided to try FR out as I am slowly making the transition to live play. The table was overall on the nittier side, we were about 30 hands in. Essentially the money was just being traded between players, and not really sticking anywhere. I was card dead so this was the first hand I was interested in playing:

Game: 100NL FR
Hero: :6d :7d , HJ, $97.75
V1: UTG+1, $88.50
V2: CO, $94.68
V3: SB, $52.50
V4: BB, $95.65

Preflop: V1 opens with a min-raise, calls around, heading 5 ways to a flop. Pot is $10
Flop: :9d :2c :2d --action checks through

Turn: :9h , action checks to hero, hero bets $5, folds to V1, V1 flats. Pot is $20
River: :Kd , V1 bets $15, hero raises to $35, V1 folds.

I'm concerned with how I let the action check through on the flop here. It being an overall nittier table, I was't sure with the paired flop, how CO would react, hence my option to check it. I was actually hoping for a x/r opportunity. I decided to flat pre, instead of 3bet since there were 4 people to act behind, wasn't sure if I was going to face a last minute squeeze, or an avalanche of callers, resulting in a bloated pot pre (Please correct my thought process here if I am wrong). What are some other areas in this hand I could have performed better?

Comments

  • AHallai_3AHallai_3 Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    It’s definitely an interesting spot. Tough to say without any real knowledge on the opponent. But getting 3.5:1 on a call, I definitely would have called based on only needing to be right about 25% of the time and the information you can gain is valuable as well. A check raise river screams value at the lower stakes that I play. But maybe they are doing this with the A of diamonds. Either way. Pay it off, make a note, move on.
  • DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
    @AHallai_3

    Totally agree with you that they most likely had the Ad, I also pegged villain in this hand to have a K, whether it be with KQs/o, AK with the Ad, etc. His bet on the river really turned his hand face up.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭
    You do realize your turned your flush into a bluff ?
  • DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
    @Red

    Yes, I'll walk through the mindset on the river. I felt with one villain remaining, and the fact that the table was on the nittier side of the ranges being played, it was more difficult for villain to be showing up here with 2x hands...22 based on how face up the players were playing postflop, I assumed I would see a much larger bet on the river with any boat. So in my mind at the time, I was going to either take it down, or get crushed by any higher flush, as well as boats with a 9. With 2 9's on the board, and a min-raise open from EP, I thought of A9, AJ+ (with a naked diamond)..and possibly TT--QQ. Is this at all an appropriate mindset to have here?
  • AHallai_3AHallai_3 Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    I just realized I read the river play backwards. I thought you folded to the river raise
  • DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 149 ✭✭
    Well if you think the table is on the nittier side, why would you NOT 3-bet here? I think you're discussion on why you aren't 3-betting is an attempt to justify that you're a tad nervous to put more money in without a premium hand. Maybe I'm wrong, but this sounds like the exact reasoning I would have used before I (started) to get over my 3-betting nerves. AND if the table is nittier, a 4-bet behind seems unlikely.

    If you're going to check the flop; what story are you now telling by betting the turn? I don't see a 9 improving you based on your range here. Are you really going to check around with Q9, T9, J9, 89, K9, A9? Probably not, esp with 2 to a flush out there, no reason to let anyone see a free card. So betting on that second 9 for 1/2 pot signals to the table 'I don't have either a 9 or a 2.' Someone with an Ax or Kx holding should come along here.

    So I would probably check the turn. You have 0 showdown value on the turn and reasonably are only winning this hand if a diamond comes up or you spike a paired 6 or 7 on the river. My thought checking the turn is that if you make your flush, great, you now have even more players in the hand who might pay off a small value bet with a high card. And if you don't, you hopefully have a better bluff opportunity than a 1/2 pot bet on a double paired board with 7 high.
  • DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
    edited November 7
    @Jordan Power

    You are correct in my preflop choice here. Honestly speaking, I read before a post where people were berating a 3bet in a similar situation, when the table was nitty. The general consensus was "What are you going to do, when you 3bet and face a 4bet, or a bunch of callers?" So therefore, I took that, and applied it here. My first initial thought was to in fact 3bet the hell out of this hand...I also did not like the flop play here, I hated that the action checked through. My biggest takeaway from your response was, the part regarding the story I told here. The fact that betting the flop, would protect the potential flush, which can lead to an easier turn. That's HUGE to me, thank you for pointing that out.

    Side note: I (in the past month) have gotten over my fear of 3betting as well. I now 3bet FAR more than I ever have, and with complete comfort..since my first thought here was "I'll 3bet it, and if I face a 4bet, I can get away, if everyone calls, oh well, time to play poker"...but ultimately opted to flat...With a min-raise, and 4 to go, what would you make the 3bet size here, 3x...or more like 4-5x?
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 149 ✭✭
    Well if his raise was a standard 3x open, I would have made it 3x on that, so 9 BB, basically. And I would have still used that same sizing. With the min raise, I would just act like its a standard open and use my sizing based on whatever a normal open would be. I wouldn't adjust to the min raise, basically.

    And I wasn't advocating betting the flop necessarily. No hands worse than yours will continue (since your hand is pretty not so good) on this board except for possibility, I don't think checking through is such a bad event for you. I would have no idea how to play this hand live, frankly. I struggle in these situations (well, most situations lol).
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭
    If you're going to check the flop; what story are you now telling by betting the turn? I don't see a 9 improving you based on your range here. Are you really going to check around with Q9, T9, J9, 89, K9, A9? Probably not, esp with 2 to a flush out there, no reason to let anyone see a free card. So betting on that second 9 for 1/2 pot signals to the table 'I don't have either a 9 or a 2.' Someone with an Ax or Kx holding should come along here.

    If you cbet all your 9, you gonna have a bad time
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 149 ✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    If you're going to check the flop; what story are you now telling by betting the turn? I don't see a 9 improving you based on your range here. Are you really going to check around with Q9, T9, J9, 89, K9, A9? Probably not, esp with 2 to a flush out there, no reason to let anyone see a free card. So betting on that second 9 for 1/2 pot signals to the table 'I don't have either a 9 or a 2.' Someone with an Ax or Kx holding should come along here.

    If you cbet all your 9, you gonna have a bad time

    Fair, my point wasn't to c-bet all the 9s but I didn't make that clear (and if this is the South Park reference I think it is, lol thanks for that).
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7
    (and if this is the South Park reference I think it is, lol thanks for that).

    gb48hzt8xa8p.jpg
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 149 ✭✭
    Hahaha yes, a man of much culture am I
  • DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
    I love South Park..how am I missing something here..
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 149 ✭✭
    Well you've clearly french fried when you were supposed to pizza.
  • DeadliftsDeadlifts Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
    @Jordan Power

    Haha fair enough my man, I'll concede here

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