Glover/Hull. First Principles: Preflop Ranges

Ross and Doug are back with another two-voice video in which they analyze Snowie's view of preflop ranges. They uncover some fascinating and perhaps counter-intuitive relationships between position, bet size and range. Please leave questions and comments on this video below.
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Comments

  • Fernando TFernando T Red Chipper Posts: 90 ✭✭
    Great video! Shows us how to think about ranges and how to react to open rease
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Yes, this is a good one.

    One point: It should come as less shocking that smaller raises are necessary from up front, as these positions push equity less effectively. By the time you reach the button, these positions encounter less resistance and therefore less aggressive dead money may go into every vpip.

    I mention this in part because during my all night reading of NLHETP for the other thread, Sklansky makes the point that isolation is less valuable in NL than in LHE, a counterintuitve but informative idea borne out in these value heavy strategies that Snowie and theory end up liking.
  • magicpigmagicpig Red Chipper Posts: 97 ✭✭
    Well done!

    I would like to see Glover and Hull do more Snowie related videos.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,503 -
    magicpig wrote: »
    Well done!

    I would like to see Glover and Hull do more Snowie related videos.

    And you shall!
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  • solarcoastersolarcoaster Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    I really enjoyed this one. What other snowie related videos out there? I recently bought snowie pro annual but sort of regret it... from random forums the general view is that the software is out of the date and that the money is better spent getting GTO+ and simpleGTO trainer or something, but oh well!
  • sfx_beigssfx_beigs Red Chipper Posts: 56 ✭✭
    I really enjoyed this one. What other snowie related videos out there? I recently bought snowie pro annual but sort of regret it... from random forums the general view is that the software is out of the date and that the money is better spent getting GTO+ and simpleGTO trainer or something, but oh well!

    So is Snowie not worth the investment? I was contemplating subscribing as a Christmas present to myself.
  • solarcoastersolarcoaster Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    I think it's pretty good if you're lazy and want to train against a computer. You can get adept at pre-flop ranging and multi-way pots and get 70% of the way there. It's basically the lazy man way of avoiding constructing ranges manually or using solvers. If you are a relative beginner to GTO and looking for shortcuts I would recommend it. If you really want to delve into pure theory and aren't afraid of hard work I'd probably invest in GTO+ instead.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,503 -
    I really enjoyed this one. What other snowie related videos out there? I recently bought snowie pro annual but sort of regret it... from random forums the general view is that the software is out of the date and that the money is better spent getting GTO+ and simpleGTO trainer or something, but oh well!

    Doug did a couple of others:

    Snowie Overpair 3-bet Line Check

    and

    Mixed Strategies With PokerSnowie

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  • solarcoastersolarcoaster Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,503 -
    Welcome.
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  • canconcancon Red Chipper Posts: 12 ✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Yes, this is a good one.

    One point: It should come as less shocking that smaller raises are necessary from up front, as these positions push equity less effectively. By the time you reach the button, these positions encounter less resistance and therefore less aggressive dead money may go into every vpip.

    I mention this in part because during my all night reading of NLHETP for the other thread, Sklansky makes the point that isolation is less valuable in NL than in LHE, a counterintuitve but informative idea borne out in these value heavy strategies that Snowie and theory end up liking.

    I'm trying to clarify my thinking here...we open a tighter range EP because we have the maximum number of players left to act. As we approach the B hand equity can decrease because there are fewer players to act in front of us. On B/Blinds we compete for dead money with the least number of players possible so we have the widest range here.

    Min info to construct a range?...our position, # of players at table, amount of dead money...opponents fold/raise/call frequencies?
  • canconcancon Red Chipper Posts: 12 ✭✭
    Around 32:00 we see the snowie 3bet/call charts. We 3bet polarized vs the wider UTG opening range (11.2%) because we get more fold equity than when we face a narrower (6%) range right? So we 3bet A2s-A5s 100% because of their flush and straight potential and A6s-ATs less than 100% because of their potential for domination and lack of straight potential...is that correct? I'm having trouble understanding why we don't 3B A2s-A5s vs the tighter UTG range. Is it because we don't hit four to a flush often enough and that when we do our opponent's range is so strong that we don't have any fold equity to add to our hand equity?
  • solarcoastersolarcoaster Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    Yes that’s right. The general theory is that the wider / more polarized villain is the wider / more polarized you should be. So when the villain is more polarized, you need to be more polarized and adding more A2- A5 bluffs.
  • Chris_VChris_V BoiseRed Chipper Posts: 73 ✭✭
    I'm wondering if snowie opens smaller early because it will hardly ever get cold called. It either will get folds or three bets a majority of the time from players in position. If it opens small it can be three bet and still have room to play the hand.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,503 -
    edited January 4
    I'm wondering if snowie opens smaller early because it will hardly ever get cold called. It either will get folds or three bets a majority of the time from players in position. If it opens small it can be three bet and still have room to play the hand.

    Maybe another way of looking at it is simply that as the likelihood of playing the hand OOP increases the less inclined it is to put a lot of $$$ in the pot. In other words, if I told you you'd either be playing a pot HU OOP or HU IP, which pot would you like to be bigger?

    It's too bad we can't give Snowie the option of going for a pee break when it's UTG+2.
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  • Chris_VChris_V BoiseRed Chipper Posts: 73 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    It's too bad we can't give Snowie the option of going for a pee break when it's UTG+2.

    It's really too bad that we can't give pokersnowie a bunch of low limit player profiles to play against to see how it adjusts. Does it open up or tighten up and does it increase it's raise size? Playing with GTO+ showed that me we can bet more OOP when our opponents are passive and don't bluff enough. Maybe some preflop solvers can do this now.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,503 -
    edited January 8
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    It's too bad we can't give Snowie the option of going for a pee break when it's UTG+2.

    It's really too bad that we can't give pokersnowie a bunch of low limit player profiles to play against to see how it adjusts. Does it open up or tighten up and does it increase it's raise size? Playing with GTO+ showed that me we can bet more OOP when our opponents are passive and don't bluff enough. Maybe some preflop solvers can do this now.

    AlphaZero has worked its way from Go to shogi and chess and I've heard rumors it's going to be unleashed on the digital card games. At some point it'll turn its dead, silicon eyes to poker and we'll likely all end up feeling a bit dim.
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