All in desition in early stages

yair gyair g Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
i played the Unibet main event in Irland 1000 +100 buy in (i got threw satallite)

30000 starting stack
blinds 150/300 ante 25

my stack: 33000
villen stack: 36000

im UTG with 7s8s raise to 650
villen re raise to 2000
he re raise every three/four hands and blofs a lot. so i called (to early to call oop 78?)

flop comes: 9s Js 9c
i checked and villen raised to 1800 (less than hs flop raise)
i suspected he do it with KQ or Q 10
wanted to shove. let him play for stack
but didn't have the balls. it is the most expensive tournament i played...

turn came 10h
i checked and villen raised to 5600
i thought if he had JJ he would checked back
so i need to be careful from KQ / 10 9. 22 combos
i am good of AQs AKs AJ or QQ QsJ. 23 combos. and air
i called
river 5d
i checked. let him kill himself
he shoved
i didn't get why KQ will shove
as i saw him fighting for pots i figgerd i should call. i called. he had KdQc

how many mistakes have i done and waht should i learn from this hand?

thanks for helping



  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,140 -
    I tend not to raise 87s UTG in tournaments, but if you do I'd make it at least 2.5x at >100BB. Once raised I fold.

    You can't check-shove the flop, you're far too deep.

    Beyond that... I dunno. I can't see folding the turn, but with tourney life on the line maybe get away from it on the river.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • yair gyair g Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    thanks for the point of view
    i think about his underbet on the flop. it must be KQ of or poket pair 10 or 8

    people dont like to play for stack
    so i should re raise the preflop (once i raised - witch i agree - not a good step) or shove the flop let him think about his tournament life
    most of players are folding even AJ
    if he had AJ he would bet larger for protaction

    he bet small coause he was affraid of being commited

    you opened my mind for another thinking. cheers
  • RomuffelRomuffel Red Chipper Posts: 10 ✭✭
    I dont like playing for stack. I would just shove the flop or raise the preflop
  • Chadox78Chadox78 Virginia, USARed Chipper Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November 2018
    In this situation it is obvious you don't have a boat. You are check, check, checking too much. You probably gave yourself away by X/C turn (only 3combos of JJ does that). That defined you and the check on the river confirmed it. Your range looks like: AA-88, AK,AQs-ATs preflop. A looser open contains a lot more suited BW's, more PP's and some SC's like the one you played. The looser range will have turned a lot more draws. His turn bet was too perfect a size too. He knew you are gonna call draws there, and if he bet more you would have folded [ in his mind ]. That should have raised flags.

    The 87's is a very deceptive hand and he was probably a bit surprised you held that, and for that reason you leveled yourself and got stacked. You should not play these hands in the early stages. You need to start very tight. The stacks are so deep, you want to be very selective in the early stages. Which is why I don't open these speculative hands DEEP-STACKED and from UTG.

    Anytime you are this deep-stacked and required to put 100bb's in the middle on the river with an ignorant-ended straight on a paired board is going to increase the overall variance. You want to avoid these risky calls on the river. If you thought he put you on AA, KK, or a 9x, how ahead are you when he shoves. He's either got the boat, or a better straight. Not much else. I can make that deduction by the action's he took and the bet-sizing. There aren't many 9x hands in his PF 3betting range, even if he is a LAG. So you are going to be behind more than you realize, I think.

    Hope this helps, not trying to talk down to you. Just know this situation all too well. That you play more ABC poker when deep-stacked in the early stages. And early on you don't know much about the other players. He may have had good hands frequently and just raised correctly each time. You can't make too many assumptions this early on.

    Stick to standard range's in early stages. You deviate from that as you find exploitative situations like a passive table, or a passive player.And of course, as stacks get shallow. But don't assume, especially in the early stages. Again, I hope you don't take this the wrong way. It's just the more theoretically sound approach to starting an MTT.

  • Chadox78Chadox78 Virginia, USARed Chipper Posts: 3 ✭✭
    And I second the first reply about bet-size. You are not min-raising UTG when everyone is playing tight. That's crazy, nobody will fold anything decent pre-flop. But more than that, the hands like 55 and KQo will want to enter by 3betting, to iso your lazy bet-sizing and to make themselves look stronger too increase chances of C-bet bluffing if the Flop misses both his and your range.

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