Hand Review.. from the group chat discussion

TheGrindersCookbookTheGrindersCookbook Merrimack, NHRed Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
Hey Guys -

Played a couple sessions this weekend and yesterday I had one hand that got a good response in our WhatsApp thread. Lot of interesting takes, especially from @Doller and @Jordan Power I am going to recap that hand here and see what others think. Here is my exact post.

Hero is UTG and gets dealt :Ah:As , no diamond. Raise it up to $8. The table has been calling most raises from $8-25 so I think I want max callers here. UTG+1 calls, MP calls, BB calls.

Player reads:

UTG+1 - I have played with him before. He is an older Asian man who likes to gamble. I've seen him show up at show down with pairs and missed draws enough to not think too much about his call here. He is villain in this hand.

MP - strong reg. His call makes me a little nervous. I wouldn't know what to do if we go heads up at any point in this hand.

BB is horrible. I never saw him before but he ripped through 2 buy ins in the first hour with top pairs at showdown against much better made hands. He is not an issue here. My guess is he is going to fold this flop when I C-bet.

We go 4 ways to a flop: :6d:3d:8c

I think we are pretty safe here to lead out with a nice C-bet. I make it $35 in this spot. I think i can size up a bit here but still want callers. I don't think any of these guys are calling with hands that don't connect with this board. Hands continuing are probably pairs, flush draws (most likely) and I think I'll get a re-raise if someone hit a set.

Re-reading the above, I think I change my mind here. I want more pressure than $35 here. I want max value from flush draws, and also know where I stand against a made set. I think this should be more like $50-75 range.

UTG+1 calls, other 2 fold. I like this.

Turn is the :9d . Really bad card for us here. We both check.

River is the :Js

Here is where it sucks. Straights got here, flushes have been here. I check it over and he makes it $40. This bet seems weak to me. I'm going through the hand in my head and just keep coming back to a missed hand (albeit difficult) or AJ. I just don't see how I can fold to this bet. Is anyone folding here?

Let me know your thoughts on this. I think theres an underlying concept I really messed up and want to understand why and how to fix. Shout out to all the WhatsApp guys for the comments.

Comments

  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 530 ✭✭✭
    (Don't shout us out yet; let some of the better players destroy our opinions, first!)
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    JSnow wrote: »
    Hero is UTG and gets dealt :Ah:As , no diamond. Raise it up to $8. The table has been calling most raises from $8-25 so I think I want max callers here. UTG+1 calls, MP calls, BB calls.

    You never want as many callers as possible. The point to raise pre is to prepare postflop. Why do you want to put AA in a bad OOP MW spot ??

    Also you wan to charge worst hands as much as they are willing to pay. Why betting 8$ when they want to call 25$ ?
    Also see the difference it makes in terms of SPR and eff stack. Overpairs like low SPR.

    Also if you change your open bet sizing, better player (like MP) will notice. And adjust.
    JSnow wrote: »
    We go 4 ways to a flop: :6d:3d:8c

    I think we are pretty safe here to lead out with a nice C-bet. I make it $35 in this spot. I think i can size up a bit here but still want callers. I don't think any of these guys are calling with hands that don't connect with this board. Hands continuing are probably pairs, flush draws (most likely) and I think I'll get a re-raise if someone hit a set.

    Re-reading the above, I think I change my mind here. I want more pressure than $35 here. I want max value from flush draws, and also know where I stand against a made set. I think this should be more like $50-75 range.
    .
    Pot is 4x 8$ + SB = 33$
    You pot bet. And think that you should have bet 50-75$ ?!?
    Someone has to really think around WHY we bet and how action and bet sizing influence both V's reaction and ranges (V and H). And the difference between MW and HU in these thoughts.
  • TheGrindersCookbookTheGrindersCookbook Merrimack, NHRed Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    @Red Would you say that a better line here is going up 10x BB then? I just thought I wanted to get paid in this spot, but still wanted to raise. I chose a size that would entice some action. I guess I got what I wanted..

    Thing is, the guy ended up showing 69.. I don't see how (given the player type), I would have been able to get him off this hand on the flop any other way.
  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    JSnow wrote: »
    Thing is, the guy ended up showing 69.. I don't see how (given the player type), I would have been able to get him off this hand on the flop any other way.

    You don't want to get him off 96 on this flop. Him calling you with only 5 outs to improve is a great scenario. You just got unlucky that he hit.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    JSnow wrote: »
    I think theres an underlying concept I really messed up and want to understand why and how to fix.

    Yup: your goals for this hand and how to play it are all over the place.

    JSnow wrote: »
    I want max callers here.
    JSnow wrote: »
    I wouldn't know what to do if we [MP] go heads up at any point in this hand.
    JSnow wrote: »
    C-bet. I make it $35 in this spot. I think i can size up a bit here but still want callers.
    JSnow wrote: »
    River... I just don't see how I can fold to this bet. Is anyone folding here?
    JSnow wrote: »
    I just thought I wanted to get paid in this spot, but still wanted to raise. I chose a size that would entice some action. I guess I got what I wanted..
    JSnow wrote: »
    Thing is, the guy ended up showing 69.. I don't see how (given the player type), I would have been able to get him off this hand on the flop any other way.

  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 595 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
  • TheGrindersCookbookTheGrindersCookbook Merrimack, NHRed Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    Thanks @LeChiffre for the positive and constructive feedback! You have helped me understand more about the game. We need more people like you in this forum.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 595 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    LOL yes sorry, I posted something but then deemed it irrelevant. Couldn't delete. @TheGameKat we need you :)
  • TheGrindersCookbookTheGrindersCookbook Merrimack, NHRed Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    @LeChiffre @persuadeo Ha! Sorry! Usually only persuadeo makes me feel dumb so when I saw another person I got defensive. Carry on lol
  • TheGrindersCookbookTheGrindersCookbook Merrimack, NHRed Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    @Phil Ebbs I think it goes wrong on the preflop raise. I was thinking more about it and i bet my 10s, JJ, QQ, and KK a lot harder than my other hands, but when i get to AA I size down my raises to the same range I raise with hands like low pockets and suited connectors. I let too many people see this board.

    From there, I try to dig myself out by making a pot sized bet. I still hate that V calls with middle pair. Personally, I think thats more of a bad play on his part so I dont hate it in that regard.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 595 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    JSnow wrote: »
    @LeChiffre @persuadeo Ha! Sorry! Usually only persuadeo makes me feel dumb so when I saw another person I got defensive. Carry on lol

    no worries mate, I get the sentiment towards persuadeo lol

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