120BB Ante

Warrington_1Warrington_1 Red Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
This was a hard one for me. I was moved 4 times during a 6 hour tourney. This was my 3rd move and I had some garbage hands for 2 Rings which gave me the image of a tight player. I wake up with Pocket AA in the CO. Blinds are 6000/3000 with a 6000BB ante. Villain stack is about 80k and I am sitting at 130k. Villain had 99. He leads out for 12k. This table was only leading out for 2bb which was based on avg stack size because we still had about 40% of the field in round 12 I believe so avg stack was about 130k. Things were about to speed up alot as you can tell.

Villain bets 12k. folds around to me and I raise to 25k. (Wanted value but not to chase him away. SB and BB fold. Pot is 46k leaving villain with 68k. Flop comes. JJJ. He completely shuts down and starts thinking out loud. Tells me he has a pocket pair but is worried mine is bigger (i just moved to the table remember so he has no clue about my actual range) After about 2 min he checks. I want to keep him on the hook so I bet 20k. he tanks for another 5 min and lays it down.

My question is... did I do anything wrong. I feel my line was ok. His stack size dictated my reraise. I could have limped behind but I hate that with pocket aces... been cracked on me a few times. Thoughts

Comments

  • MnpokerMnpoker Red Chipper Posts: 87 ✭✭
    Short of quad 9's he can't crack you. Preflop raise was too small you could have had 3 callers (bad with ace's). Post flop you should have checked as he told you that he was afraid and you had a 98% holding.
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,684 -
    edited December 2018
    You could have formatted the question a ton better. Instead of switching between K and not K notation you could have done the readers a huge favor by writing more clearly (and not giving away the opponent holding).

    The following would have gotten you a lot more responses. Five extra minutes from the original poster can mean more people read and comprehend the question. The extra care shown in posing the question shows potential responders that a well thought out response will be appreciated.

    • New to the table in an MTT,
    • First two orbits I just folded
    • Nowhere near the money bubble
    • Effective stacks are 13BB (Villain) and 22BB(Hero)
    • Hero holds AA
    • Hero has the average stack size
    • One Big Blind ante on the Big Blind position

    Villain opens to 2BB
    It folds around to Hero OTB
    Hero raises to 4BB
    All fold to Villain who calls from his 13BB stack

    I think the hand is over at this point, but the flop is JJJ and the Villain checks in the 10BB pot with 9BB remaining. Hero bets 3BB and he folds.

    I ask myself "Why didn't I just three-bet commit pre-flop with such a tiny effective stack?"
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • Warrington_1Warrington_1 Red Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
    Ill keep that format in mind for future postings. New to posting hands. It is much easier to read vs my story time.
  • Warrington_1Warrington_1 Red Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
    Mnpoker wrote: »
    Short of quad 9's he can't crack you. Preflop raise was too small you could have had 3 callers (bad with ace's). Post flop you should have checked as he told you that he was afraid and you had a 98% holding.

    There are a few things that could crack that. pocket QQ or KK could if another falls by the river. Odds are against all of those though
  • MnpokerMnpoker Red Chipper Posts: 87 ✭✭
    You had AA’s you are bullet proof on that flop except to quads, and I made the mistake of thinking of V’s hand you biggest fear would be V holding the 4th J but again it is 2% that he has the last J
  • Warrington_1Warrington_1 Red Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
    The question was if my bet sizing was right.. he basically talked himself out of the hand without me doing anything but raising in position.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,757 -
    Pretty sure him telling you he had a pocket pair breaks TDA rules, but to get back to your line... I think either betting or checking back are both defensible.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,684 -
    I would have raised bigger pre, forcing a commit mindset on Villain. If he did indeed have a pair does he talk himself into flipping with "Hero's obvious AK"

    By making such a tiny re-raise do you allow him to get away on most flops where he does not flop a set on you? While calling that min raise was likely wrong for a set-miner, why not get the whole stack pre or deny equity.

    Basically push fold at these stack depths is solved. Trying to do anything else is dubious at best.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,757 -
    Doug Hull wrote: »
    I would have raised bigger pre, forcing a commit mindset on Villain. If he did indeed have a pair does he talk himself into flipping with "Hero's obvious AK"

    By making such a tiny re-raise do you allow him to get away on most flops where he does not flop a set on you? While calling that min raise was likely wrong for a set-miner, why not get the whole stack pre or deny equity.

    Basically push fold at these stack depths is solved. Trying to do anything else is dubious at best.

    Hmmm. Yes and no. If the blinds are deep enough here I think a small 3b can actually work a bit like a flat to induce a squeeze-shove. And in the context of tourney bet sizing that reraise isn't really tiny. I agree just shoving pre can't be wrong, particularly since the opener shouldn't raise-fold off that stack, but I can imagine dynamics where we can try something else.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,684 -
    When we choose to play push-fold at a certain stack depth we are playing a sub-game of poker. This subgame has been solved, perfectly, because it is easier. There is a certain EV for the strategy and for each hand within it.

    If we choose to play non-push fold (when push fold is applicable) we need to do the following:
    1. Model our opponent
    2. Come up with a unique strategy that is optimal against that model
    3. Balance that strategy so that we are not just playing our hand instead of range
    4. Implement this correctly in a very limited time

    Given that we were able to do this, there is NO guarantee that this more complicated, error-prone strategy has a higher EV than the simple well-known one. Further, if we model our opponent incorrectly, the results of a an exploitive strategy can easily swing very badly.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,757 -
    Of course, my point was that against an opponent who is spewing live tells and babbling about his hand, there may be unbalanced exploits that will work.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Warrington_1Warrington_1 Red Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Thanks for the advice.
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Pretty sure him telling you he had a pocket pair breaks TDA rules, but to get back to your line... I think either betting or checking back are both defensible.

    Dealer told him to stop talking of he would call the floor. It was a weird spot. I didnt have a read on the whole table but he seemed like a LAG. He busted out to soon after this hand so I never got validation on it. It was a strange situation altogether. The more I thought about it the more I think I should have shoved on him rather then raise. At the time with my feeling he was a lag I figured he would have paid it to see another card.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,757 -
    About a day after my last comment I got into a very similar spot in an online tournament and shoved, so I guess in real time I take the obvious line and avoid FPS.
    Moderation In Moderation

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