Reraise flop or turn?

accessdeniedx2accessdeniedx2 Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
I believe I made the correct play here, but just want to be sure.

8ppl
Effective stack is 260$
Live 1$/2$

Villain is an older lady that I've seen get very sticky. Example: Called 3 streets with AJo on a board run out of K J 7 K 4. I've watched her value own herself with a big pair and an overcard. Little to no fold equity.

I raise UTG to 17$ with AcKc. I get 3 callers. Villain is in BB.

Flop is Qs6c3c.

Villain donk leads for 25$. I put her squarely on a Queen. I call 25$. Guy in MP calls also. Rest fold.

Turn is 8h. Villain donk leads 50$. I call. MP tank folds.

River is a blank. Villain leads 50 again. I fold.

My only question was if I played it right by only calling. I don't see her ever folding here. Normally they need a fold button here for a raise on flop or turn. I hated calling all the way, but I think it was the best play given the player type...

Villain did show Qc5c

Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    I don't like your flat. I'd go for a more aggro line, considering we have 2 overcards and nut FD. Flop is somehow dry and off suit Q high, so this advantages more the PFR: you've overpairs KK/AA and better TP QX. You can have FD (fewer but better) and since it's an off suited Q you can have combo draws as well (AQcc, KQcc, QJcc, QTcc).
    I want to use my range advantage and force V to respect my PFR.

    Also based on stack size, eff. stack on flop is 243$ and pot 52$. What about pot geometry?
    - When BB donk 25$, turn pot will be 127$ for remaining 218$ (2 callers) or 102 for remaining 218$ (only H calls). This will be hard to really leverage a find a nice FE because bet size will create an akward situation: do we over-raise shove turn? Do we raise turn but then remaining stack will be marginal to the pot?
    - If Hero raises flop to 90-100$ - V is sticky and need more help / chips to fold, a pot seems right (see note 2) - , MP will often fold. BB shall still fold sometimes; the other times, turn pot will be around 150$ for 150$ remaining stack. This sets up a nice turn pot shove for max pressure on BB - both when we bluff and we hit for value.


    Note 1: I'd not try to bluff her enough with this line, maybe only with AKcc, AJcc, and either KJcc or A2cc+A4cc (I open sometimes low AXs). My raise will be value heavy; but not value exclusive. AcKc is a hand I'd bluff here.

    Note 2: I'd not be too afraid of V being sticky. If it's witnessed BB v. other bad V, then maybe the observed lack of FE comes from V's too low bet sizing. If they size too low - like the 40-50% pot bet in my casino - , it's maybe just too small for her to fold. But it's just that her pain threshold is just a bit higher - that's the point of raising pot flop, and setting a pot shove up.
  • Michael EMichael E Red Chipper Posts: 122 ✭✭
    Red wrote: »

    Note 2: I'd not be too afraid of V being sticky. If it's witnessed BB v. other bad V, then maybe the observed lack of FE comes from V's too low bet sizing. If they size too low - like the 40-50% pot bet in my casino - , it's maybe just too small for her to fold. But it's just that her pain threshold is just a bit higher - that's the point of raising pot flop, and setting a pot shove up.

    Love your Note 2 here Red.
    I find the same thing to be true. These types will call those HSPB all day. Setting up an All In bet could cause the right amount of pain! They don't like playing for stacks. But they love calling moderate sized bets...even with single pair type hands.
  • accessdeniedx2accessdeniedx2 Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    I liked that concept also Red. I'm gonna have to consider that in certain spots.

    Btw, what is HSPB?
  • Michael EMichael E Red Chipper Posts: 122 ✭✭
    I liked that concept also Red. I'm gonna have to consider that in certain spots.

    Btw, what is HSPB?

    Probably something I made up...probably not..


    Half Size Pot Bet...
  • Steve JonesSteve Jones Red Chipper Posts: 95 ✭✭
    While I agree with red that the optimal line here with AcKc is aggro and set up a pot size jam on turn. Value heavy, but this particular hand as a bluff.

    I also believe that this particular opponent would not have folded if you took that line. The opponent you describe will not fold top pair here even for 100bb. I believe that this kind of player will call top pair bad kicker with no flush draw. So the call, call, fold line you took here was prolly the correct exploitative line. If you wanted to play perfect long term +ev poker, then the line red suggested is best.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 429 ✭✭✭
    While I agree with red that the optimal line here with AcKc is aggro and set up a pot size jam on turn. Value heavy, but this particular hand as a bluff.

    I also believe that this particular opponent would not have folded if you took that line. The opponent you describe will not fold top pair here even for 100bb. I believe that this kind of player will call top pair bad kicker with no flush draw. So the call, call, fold line you took here was prolly the correct exploitative line. If you wanted to play perfect long term +ev poker, then the line red suggested is best.

    The aggro line is 100% better; this is not an exploitative play as played just b/c V isn't folding. We have 9 outs to the nut flush, and 6 outs to beat her queen if we assume she has a queen without an ace or king to go with it. We're going to take the lead more than half the time here by showdown. By setting up the shove on the turn, we at least put V to a real decision.

    @Red is spot on in Note 2. There's a huge difference between someone being sticky for 2/3 pot and being sticky for it all.
  • accessdeniedx2accessdeniedx2 Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Villain had called light all night, buying back in for 100$ 3x. I don't think she's folding here, but maybe I should've put her to the test of her stack? For future reference if anything.

    That's my dilemma here. I believe the aggressive line is best, but is it best given this opponents tendencies?

    Thank you all! I think the correct answer is player dependant in her case, but against an unknown, I agree that the aggro all in is usually the right move.

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