Flopped nut flush getting max value

Steve JonesSteve Jones Red Chipper Posts: 95 ✭✭
1-2 been at the table for a few hours, nothing too interesting to note, villain HJ has been playing about 75% pre flop and has been hitting, he has about $650. Hero has $530 on the button.

Hero is dealt :Ah :Th

Utg 1 $220 raises to $8
4 calls, I decide to call insted of 3 bet, I want to play a multiway pot with a hand that will play well multiway. I can easily fold if I miss and only be out $8.
Sb and bb call

Flop $56 is :Jh :6h :3h

Checks to villain who bets $65, this is a big flop bet for this game, and since I have the ace and ten of hearts, I figure he is not drawing to a flush, he prolly already has a flush and is betting for value and protection against another heart.

I call and utg calls.

Turn about $255 is :2c

Villain bets $100

Now I want to play for stacks, but what action is best? If I just call I have to hope for a non heart, non pair river to get stacks in. If I raise I may scare away utg 1 and possibly fold out villain, but I guess he wont fold flush here? Not sure. What does hero do here on turn?


  • DMG7DMG7 Red Chipper Posts: 4 ✭✭
    Hi Steve, this will be my first commentary on another person's hand history so hopefully I can provide some insight here. Let me begin with what I would do and why: raise to 300. Why? Well, let's talk about the first player who's going to get a chance to react to your raise, and that's utg 1. He's already called off almost 1/3 of his stack to see the turn, which produced an absolute brick (maybe it wasn't a brick for 45, but he raised utg AND a straight still isn't beating you). This puts utg 1 all in, which he basically was already: he had 150 behind facing a bet of 100, so he was going to fold or push in this spot almost every time.

    Now let's get to villain, mr. aggressive big stack. You said he's been playing a lot of hands, like, a LOT of hands. It's very possible that given this wide of a range, he has two hearts in his hand, in which case he is likely not folding. By raising to 300 here, you give him a good price to call with weaker flushes while ALSO charging him for drawing on two pair or a set. The most outs he has is with a set, which would give him 7 outs and 14% equity going to river. By raising to 300 and making the pot 655, you're charging him a high price to draw EVEN IF utg 1 calls and makes the pot 800 (because villain would then only have about 11% pot odds (1:8)).
  • Steve JonesSteve Jones Red Chipper Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited January 1
    DMG7 good post. I really agree with your comment. When the hand is actually happening and I only have a minute to think, its tough to get the perfect answer sometimes. Once you have time to really think about it, things seem so much more clear. I think a raise of 250 may be better than 300, but yes a raise seems best.

    So what really happened is I made a mistake and just called the 100 and utg 1 folded. The river brings the :Js

    Villain checks, hero?
  • ragin_cajunragin_cajun Red Chipper Posts: 47 ✭✭
    calling the turn was a big mistake. The 2nd jack on the turn froze villain up. He won't call a bet here unless he's being cute with HIS full house. So, it's like you won't get a call on your river bet unless you're beaten now, so why bet? Which is just all wrong when you flop a nut flush like this.

    I wouldn't expect wierd river plays like this......bet out, see if he'll call $200? Pray he doesn't raise you.
  • Steve JonesSteve Jones Red Chipper Posts: 95 ✭✭
    I was very confident villain had flush, so I wasnt worried about river. It was an action killer tho, which is why I should have raised turn, that was my bad mistake. I bet 100 because I figured that was the amount he would call with a flush. He did call and had a small flush, so I won but lost almost 300 in value, so that was very bad.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1
    According to your analysis, there are quite a few action killers that can come on the turn or river, not to mention some that can beat you, and if your opponent might actually hold a flush there is no reason at all to slowplay.

    To be fair you're right that holding :AH: might hurt what villain is willing to draw to, but unlike you I don't discount villain holding :KH: or :QH: here and willing to pay for it. I raise earlier in the hand. In this case on the river he no longer has any hope. A raise gets money from both the made flushes and the K and Q draws. Sometimes at showdown there is nothing funnier than 2 guys trying to outslowplay each other in a hand, and you end up seeing :KH: :QH: for the other hand and a $15 pot.

    Have you ever looked at your phone or something and missed a hand, but you turn around at showdown and one guy tables AA and the other guy tables KK and the pot is $12 and you wonder how the hell that happened?
  • Steve JonesSteve Jones Red Chipper Posts: 95 ✭✭
    Yes Ive seen it many times. I was hoping to keep the other guy in the hand, but quickly realized he only had 150 in his stack after I called the 100 turn. So yea, that was bad.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 955 ✭✭✭✭
    I look at it this way.....
    you need to get 500 ish by the river....
    flop is 50 ish....so if you get 150 ish by the turn pot will be 350 and you will have to bet 350 on the river...not good...
    200 in pot 450 you need to bet 300 into 450 better still big bet..
    you get 300 ish the you betting only 200 into 650 much better....

    same logic applies for raising the flop and shoving the turn....which if you can put him on hands he can call works even better.

    Hands villain could have...that he bets the flop with....well it can't be and AH...
    so its smaller flushes, sets, pairs with a heart, big pairs with no heart...

    good chance if you raise the flop to say 150-200.. he calls or shoves with all but pair no heart...(mostly), and you or unlikely getting much more money.....

    Other players fold to your raise unless they have, sets or flushes....mostly...but all other hands fold or may call one bet....

    raise flop 175....shove turn..keeps a lot of his hands in looks like you might have a draw .....and very few players are will to fold KK with the KH....some can't fold KK without the king of hearts.....

    So unless villain is a shoving maniac who would bluff the turn huge...I just like raising the flop....and probably shoving the turn..

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