Interesting spot vs a tough opponent final table

jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭✭
edited January 3 in Tournament Poker Hands
Hero 55 BB's V-1 100+ chip leader. V is a tourney reg, and is aggressive but smart with his aggression. 8 handed, Folds to hero on COwho opens :AC: :KH: for 2.5 BB's, folds to V in BB who 3-bets to 10 BB's, V has been someone aggressive with his 3-bets, and I have seen him show up with 99 and A10o as some of his 3-bets. I did think about potentially shoving, especially since I block AA and KK, but I'm soft as cotton these days in tourneys
Anyways, I call, and the flop comes

Pot 23 BB's

:AH: :QD: :9C: . V bet's 8 BB's, hero calls (I contemplated shoving, but I don't think I really get called by worse. I wanna keep his worse hands in his range.

Pot 39 BB's

Turn :AS:

V checks, and I decide to check. Realistically, I'm afraid of 2 cards in the deck, and that's a 10 and maybe a J. If I bet here, I think I fold out his bluffs, and I'ma get value from Ax and whatever else on the river, plus I'm IP.

River :TH: . Tight. V...goes into his time bank. And shoves. Hero? So I've taken some damage to my stack here, 18 BB's, I'm down to 37 BB's, so he's shoving a bit less than pot. Now this isn't a cash game, chips aren't worth 1 to 1. He's repping 10's, AQ, A10 (dunno if he 3-bets this), or maybe KJ. Call of fold for tourney life (still got 37 BB's left, so I'm in fine shape if I fold).


  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,070 -
    CO vs aggressive BB I think the default is 4b-shove pre.

    If he has the range you say he's repping, does he really check turn? Having checked back turn I think you have to call.

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  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭✭
    Even at 55 BB's? (this is online, dunno if that matters).
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,070 -
    You'd rather it was 35 but it isn't.

    Let's see, I guess there are antes? So if the pot is 23bb on the flop, then before you call pre there is 15.5bb and you have 52.5bb back. If you shove and V folds you add 30% to your stack. That's a lot.

    I dunno, a non-AI 4-bet doesn't seem viable and calling CO vs BB seems too passive to me.
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  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,070 -
    As it actually played out, it seems you took a line that attempted to keep V's range as wide as possible, which is why I don't think you can fold the end.
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  • pokerdj4pokerdj4 NYRed Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    Because you didn't Jam pre, he likely does not think you have AK, AQ, JJ+. The way it's played, he probably thinks you have pocket pairs lower than the board and expects you to fold to this river jam. Realistically, we probably only have to be worried about KJ or AQ and we have an A and K blocker.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for all your inputs. I guess I need to re-examine how I play AK, or even hands like JJ/10's in tourneys. I know that much of AK's power comes pre and with FE, but I still felt that jamming at 55 BB's was a bit much. I guess much of my tourney strategy revolves around only playing more aggressive with a shorter 10-20 BB stack, and playing more conservative with bigger stacks, since I've been chip leader a bunch early in tourneys, and through too much aggression, punted off the chip lead to take min cashes, whereas if I just sat back and played good hands from LP, I think I finish a lot more top 10's.

    I think as many of you stated, I don't have many worse hands here to call with, and my hand was extremely under repped. While I fulled expected to be shown 10's or AQ, perhaps even KJ I tank called, and won against :KC: :QC: . In the chat he flamed me for using my whole time bank, and said he was try to get a King to fold a chop. Either way, I actually really liked the play from him, and I sat on this hand for a few days thinking before posting, wondering if at any point I should have played this hand a bit differently (seems like pre-flop shove is a better play).

    @TheGameKat just out of curiosity, do you shove QQ-AA + AK here? What hands do you flat? And do you have any hands that you maybe min-raise to 16 BBs? Or are you in push or flat territory?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,070 -
    jfarrow13 wrote: »

    @TheGameKat just out of curiosity, do you shove QQ-AA + AK here? What hands do you flat? And do you have any hands that you maybe min-raise to 16 BBs? Or are you in push or flat territory?

    I think a click-back is 17.5.

    Uhm. So the reason for a small 4-bet is we think we can make V 5b-shove on us with a wider range than that with which they'd call a 4-bet jam. This also requires them to suppose that we are sophisticated/tricky enough to have a polarized 4-bet range, and that we'd commit 30% of our stack and then fold the bottom of it. Live I just don't see that being viable. Online with good stats and history, I guess there could be player types where this sort of shenanigans is justified, but it's not exactly K.I.S.S.

    As to flatting, I suppose you can make a case for it, but again you'd need the right opponent. And you're still faced with the problem that flatting might actually look stronger than 4b-shoving. So you now need an opponent who is 3-betting lightish, and will either overplay their hand when you flat or outflop you, and ideally one who doesn't notice that you're unbalanced.

    I dunno. I like fold equity in tournaments and that means getting the last bet in preflop.
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  • Michael EMichael E Red Chipper Posts: 122 ✭✭
    Play it differently?
    We can bet the turn...Raise the flop....4 Bet PF.

    When you act weak, you have to recognize why you are doing that.

    Although, I prefer the opposite..always act strong and aggressive.

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