Running it twice EV

MrNiceMrNice Red Chipper Posts: 104 ✭✭
When deciding on running it twice, should it be done with a big equity advantage (89% vs 11%) or when having a flip (close equities like 50% vs 50% or 43% vs 57%)?

Whats the higher EV play? (No more rake for running it multiple times)


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭✭
    Your EV - or Expected Value - doesn't change if your run it once or more. Your equity and odds remain the same.

    What change is, running it several times reduce your variance as the effective result in win/lose of chips is (should be) closer to theoretical equity (like winning twice out of three when you've 60% equity) instead of being all or nothing chips.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,073 -
    For further discussion of this ex-parrot, please see:
    Moderation In Moderation
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's just pining for the fjords.....
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mgauch wrote: »
    When deciding on running it twice, should it be done with a big equity advantage (89% vs 11%) or when having a flip (close equities like 50% vs 50% or 43% vs 57%)?

    Try to imagine how running out the entire deck (maybe running it 40 times?) would effect those equities.....
  • Albert AAlbert A Red Chipper Posts: 95 ✭✭
    It reduces variance, not just for you but also your opponents. My point is that if you ONLY run it twice when it's good for you, your opponents will probably get wise to that and deny you the option at all. Either you do it all the time or not at all.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Regarding how you're perceived at the table, if you run it once because you think it helps you, and run it twice otherwise, you will be viewed about the same as the guy who agrees to chop the blinds only after looking at his cards and sees trash. You'll be more friendly to do whatever the other person wants. Otherwise, just run it once but do that all the time. This is the same as the person who never chops the blinds. They might not like it, but they will at least begrudgingly respect it.
  • SPI3423SPI3423 Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited January 8
    Running it twice does not change your odds or equity however there are some good things/ bad things to consider.

    Advarnages to running it once

    One thing to consider is when you’re allowed to run it twice, it’s freauently a game with a time charge. Aka the house doesn’t care how many hands you get out per half hour because you’re already paying 5/6/7/8 dollars per half hour. In pot rake games, the House only lets you run it once because the House has an interest in getting more hands out. Running it twice slows down the game and costs you EV because you get fewer hands out. And even if there were no time charges. If you’re a winning player you want to get as many hands out. You have a positive bb/100 hands, so it’s intiuyive that you want to get more hands. Running it twice slows it down.

    And when you’re running iif you think you have a skill edge in the game, you want stsck sizes to get deeper and your opponents to tilt. If you control tilt better than your opponents, if they bust out, and they rebuy, they might tilt more and stack sizes might get deeper.

    Advantage to running it twice

    This decreases your variance which in live poker can be really high.

    Encourages people to stack off lighter and gamble more. If they can run it twice, they have “two” chances to get “lucky” on you, and you want people to get their stacks in more light.

    Keeps the games more friendly, and makes bad player. In general this is a pretty important. If some fish or whale sits down and wants to run it twice, that’s fine with me. We can run the whole deck if they want to. It’s super tilting when a short stacked fish sits down at a game and wants to run it twice for no money, but you have to make the fish/bad players happy. I hate running it twice here, but think of it as an Ev sacrifice to keep the fish in the game.

    In general, if someone wants to run it twice with me, I don’t care and almost always abide.

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