Tens too aggressive?

rickmfrickmf Red Chipper Posts: 107 ✭✭
edited January 22 in Online Poker Hands
iPoker - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 144.6 BB (VPIP: 19.39, PFR: 15.31, 3Bet Preflop: 7.27, Hands: 301)
SB: 36 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 10.78, 3Bet Preflop: 5.77, Hands: 106)
BB: 168.3 BB (VPIP: 25.83, PFR: 14.57, 3Bet Preflop: 4.17, Hands: 153)
Hero (UTG): 236.7 BB
CO: 78 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:club: T:heart:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN raises to 9.4 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 20.3 BB, BTN calls 10.9 BB

Flop: (42.1 BB, 2 players) K:club: 4:spade: 8:diamond:
Hero bets 33 BB, BTN calls 33 BB

Turn: (108.1 BB, 2 players) 5:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (108.1 BB, 2 players) 3:spade:
Hero Bet? Jam? Check-Call? Check-Fold? Check-Raise?

Curious how you all would play it.

Facing a 3 bet where do you put TT? Do you flat it? 4-bet it? Mixed?

My instinct is to escape with minimum losses at the river and check fold, but maybe thats a bad move. The flop bet didn't scare him off so i don't think a river bet would.

Comments

  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 506 ✭✭✭
    I typically flat TT HJ vs BUT 3-bet but I can see arguments for 4-betting.

    As played, why did you c-bet so large on that flop? What are you trying to achieve?
  • rickmfrickmf Red Chipper Posts: 107 ✭✭
    figured in a 4 bet hand like this dude would fold anything other than something like AK KK or AA with the K on the board. Didn't want to bet small, since i didn't want to face a raise.

    Do you suggested checking a board like this in a 4 bet pot? or betting smaller?"
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 506 ✭✭✭
    1. So you're betting to fold out better hands? Which ones? Are those hands really folding after 1 bet?
    2. Does betting smaller accomplish the same thing?
  • AHallai_3AHallai_3 Sault Ste Marie, MIRed Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited January 24
    Tough call 4 betting a player who seems decent, and being out of position. Is he the type that would 3 bet on the bottun with Blocker type hands like A5s? 300 hand sample size might start to show if they 3 bet more from the button which would give you an argument to 4 bet.

    However when they call, I think you can rule out set mining and 56s-910s given the effective stacks. And more or less cap them from the premium hands unless you’ve seen them flat KK+, AK?

    You just have to ask yourself what range of hands gets to the river, plug it into a fold equity calculator and see where you stand. 99-QQ, AJs+, AQo+ are the range I would figure here.

    And I agree that the flop bet is way too big.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 506 ✭✭✭
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    1. So you're betting to fold out better hands? Which ones? Are those hands really folding after 1 bet?
    2. Does betting smaller accomplish the same thing?

    And most importantly:
    3. Would you bet this large with AA?
  • AHallai_3AHallai_3 Sault Ste Marie, MIRed Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
    rickmf wrote: »
    Didn't want to bet small, since i didn't want to face a raise.

    Im not sure the logic behind this statement though. I’m pretty sure you get the same result when your opponent raises after you bet what you did or if you underbet the pot. It’s still a sick spot to face a raise on that type of board, with your hand, regardless of bet size.
  • obliviusoblivius San FranciscoRed Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    I think the riv could be bet smallish/fold to raise, or x/f.. The spr is about a bit less than 1 so it's tricky spot... What does he flat 4b, call flop, x turn?? 99+, AQs, KQs ?? (maybe he flats AA, KK to trap) . I think ur beat..Bad spot imo and a smaller FCB leaves u more "wiggle room".. If I were V I'd sometimes play AA,KK this way from BU since we're deep. The turn x could have been a x-raise miss for V. So what ended up happening?
  • AceFromSpaceKKAceFromSpaceKK Red Chipper Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    I like the 4bet preflop but I don't understand the big flop cbet, looks kind of suspicious to me. If I'm in V's shoes I would never put you on AK, KK or AA here so I can see him calling with JJ,QQ, AQs, AJs, top pairs like AK, KQ, (maybe a few 98s, 87s).
    I think you should check this river and fold to a bet. If V has floats like backdoor FDs he would probably bluff the turn (maybe checking AQdd or AJdd). You put yourself into a tough spot there. I'm pretty sure V is folding JJ and QQ if you bet small on flop and turn. My prefered play would be to check/call flop and go from there.
  • Paul_KPaul_K DFWRed Chipper Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    rickmf wrote: »
    Facing a 3 bet where do you put TT? Do you flat it? 4-bet it? Mixed?

    Really player and stack size dependent. And I don't feel like either is in your favor here.

    Your V looks very snug, although his 3b is deceptively higher that his VPIP stats. At 300 hands that could be variance, hard to say unless you know he 3bets light from the button.

    Also wondering if it's best to have a blocker (or two) when 4 betting this small and inviting action. Maybe should be closer to 2.5x with this holding? I guess it comes down to, "what is the intent of the 4b?" Get V to fold? Play OOP with a hand that flops badly? Fold to a 5b?
  • Paul_KPaul_K DFWRed Chipper Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    1. So you're betting to fold out better hands? Which ones? Are those hands really folding after 1 bet?
    2. Does betting smaller accomplish the same thing?

    And most importantly:
    3. Would you bet this large with AA?

    Totally agree. As Villain, I would be a bit concerned that the smallish 4b was AA/KK/AKs attempting to induce. The flop bet would ease that concern.
  • rickmfrickmf Red Chipper Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Appreciate the discussion here and i agree with just about all this. Definitely put myself in a bad spot. Ended up check/ folding to a near pot sized river bet that i just couldn't call with 2nd pair.

    Poor position, poor bet sizing/ timing, poor way to make money.
  • AceFromSpaceKKAceFromSpaceKK Red Chipper Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    rickmf wrote: »
    Appreciate the discussion here and i agree with just about all this. Definitely put myself in a bad spot. Ended up check/ folding to a near pot sized river bet that i just couldn't call with 2nd pair.

    Poor position, poor bet sizing/ timing, poor way to make money.

    This really looks like KK, he wanted to get the value he missed on the turn. Cant think of many bluffs here..

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file