Hand History: any way to find a fold against an unknown player?

SaulSaul Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
$2/$5 NLH, 9 handed.

The table had two players that I knew from previous sessions, at least two others that the dealer seemed to know (implying they were at least somewhat regular players in the room), and a generally relaxed and friendly "vibe."

I have not played with Villain previously, nor had he or I played a hand in the fifteen minutes I had been at the table, when the following hand occurred.

Effective starting stacks ~$900.

Button Straddle $10.
SB completes. (Player unknown to me.)
BB raises to $25. (Player unknown to me. Too small in my opinion. If I had been in this position, it would have been to $50 or $55. Your thoughts?)
4 folds.
Hero calls with :8s :8d (I thought about 3-betting to $100 and decided to flat. Mistake?)
Villain calls. (Player unknown to me. 20s, cleancut, dressed like he had come to the card room after a day in the office.)
Button calls.
SB folds.

Pot = $110 (rake+drop of $7 ignored) Players = 4 Effective Stacks = ~$875

:Kh :8h :2d

BB checks.
Hero bets $85. (Thoughts on sizing? I was aiming for 3/4 pot)
Villain calls $85.
Button folds.
BB folds.

Pot = $280 Players = 2 Effective Stacks = ~$765


Hero bets $200 (again, going for approximately 3/4 pot)
Villain thinks for maybe 10 seconds, announces a raise, thinks another few seconds, and says, "all in."


Is there any reason not to call with my set?

The only things I could see him calling the flop bet and then raising the turn was a lower set or two pair. Specifically, 87 assuming he would take one card off with middle pair. He might also call the flop with two hearts in his hand, but a turn raise in that case seems a bit adventurous. Of course, as I said at the beginning of the post, I had not seen Villain play a hand yet.


  • Zero CoolZero Cool Red Chipper Posts: 270 ✭✭✭
    None. My chips are in the middle before he finishes saying all-in. If he slow played KK pre-flop then good for him but I think its just as likely he has 22. Also if he slow played KK then he could also have AA. There are a few heart hands that he might also get aggressive with on the turn when he picks up additional equity like A7, T9, 65.
    Saul wrote: »
    BB raises to $25. (Player unknown to me. Too small in my opinion. If I had been in this position, it would have been to $50 or $55. Your thoughts?)
    4 folds.
    Hero calls with :8s :8d (I thought about 3-betting to $100 and decided to flat. Mistake?)

    I agree the BB open size was too small which suggests weakness either in the players hand or their skill. I'm rarely opposed to 3-bets and I like the idea of getting heads up against the BB. I think sizing it to 75-80 accomplishes the same goals.

    I like your sizing throughout as allows for a pot sized shove on the river.
  • LoveFishLoveFish IllinoisRed Chipper Posts: 92 ✭✭
    I agree 3-bet to 75$ pre flop. Insta call on the turn, if he has KK then well played on his part.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 491 ✭✭✭
    First of all, thanks for the awesomely written and structured HH. And it's only your first post! A joy to read.

    Preflop I'm usually calling too but coming to think of it I really like 3-betting to isolate the weak player/weak range in position or taking it down pre.

    Like your sizing on the flop and turn.

    You'd need some ultra-heavy machinery to get me off my hand on the turn like others have said. Bravo to villain if he slowplays KK. I guess that's what happened since you're posting this hand.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 432 ✭✭✭
    I'm pretty willing to walk away from some strong hands but there's not a chance in the world I am laying this down here. I would have KK removed from his range the minute he flats the raise and then, of course, its a call.

    But let's also not give V too much credit here if he slowplayed KK. If he has KK he missed a great squeezing opportunity in a straddled pot and went 4-way to a flop with KK. It's awesome for V that he then flopped a set and its disguised but I don't think we should be applauding this V for lucking himself into a great situation if that is indeed what happened :)

    That being said, I think your flop and turn sizing are also good. I would have thought hard about a 3-bet as well but early in session, I generally won't get too far outside premium hands until I get a 3 orbits under my belt or so.

    Want to second @LeChiffre as well: great post! Welcome to the forum.
  • CactusCardsCactusCards ArizonaRed Chipper Posts: 137 ✭✭
    Instacall - The low PF bet sizing would rule out KK, I'd imagine most would want to pop that to the $50 mark like you said, to discourage weaker pairs and AX hands.

    Can't find a reason not to call this every time.
  • The_Juic3The_Juic3 Red Chipper Posts: 30 ✭✭
    Agree with everything written by the fellas on here. Nothing in any part of the line makes me believe he would have KK here, and if so, bravo to him! expect you to see a combo draw like 9Thh or a pair and a draw more than anything else.
  • Brews_and_CardsBrews_and_Cards Red Chipper Posts: 101 ✭✭
    @Phil Ebbs I suspect V did show up with KK here. Hence why OP is looking for feedback on whether he missed any signs to fold.

    @Saul Just a sick cooler, if that's what happened. We're never folding.
  • SaulSaul Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Folks, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your thoughts and logic. Villain did indeed have KK for the cooler. I posted this hand because I've read a lot about people finding folds against unknowns, whereas I tend to call them until I learn how they play. So, I wanted Red Chipper wisdom on this one. Thanks again!
  • Warrington_1Warrington_1 Red Chipper Posts: 27 ✭✭
    The only hand that beats you is KK. I am guessing AA even though you said he did have pocket Kings. You were on the right side of this even though you lost

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