Reacting to three-bets

DavidDavid Red Chipper Posts: 59 ✭✭
Playing in Vegas at 1-2 table. Most of the game 9 handed, 55 years and older. Preflop usually ends with four or more limpers. If someone raised to $7 or $12 most of the limpers called and pots are going bloated MW. Stacks ranged from $60 to $350 with a median of $200. Since I usually don’t limp my table image was tight. When I open raised in EP or in MP for $10-$15 I didn’t get much action. If I opened in later positions,or the blinds, for as much as $22 the player 2 to my left started to 3 bet a fair amount of money. Paradoxically my hands are not as strong as the EP or MP openers and he was picking up the limpers and my folds. Later when I was on the BTN I had :Jd :Js and opened for $12. He made it $26 and after limp folds I made it $52. He snap called. The board flopped 2 over cards and bricked turn and river. We checked everything down I showed and he mucked. Looking for advice on how to play better in these situations. BTW I usually play ED Millers range from “ The Course”. Thanks for your help.


  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 432 ✭✭✭
    Why are you min raising on a 4 bet? If you believe your jacks are ahead and he will give you action on worse pocket pairs and other hands against which are ahead for the moment, why not raise to $80?

    Also, when he checks a second time with two overs on the board after you checked through the flop, why not bet? Let's say the flop is AK2 rainbow. So obviously he could be calling a lot of your 4 bets with Ax hands and Kx hands as well as some worse pocket pairs.

    But is he flatting a 4 bet with AA? Certainly not. KK? Probably not. I'm okay checking back the flop on this type of board. You could be delaying a cbet with a very nuttish hand which are all in your range and not your opponents. And checking back the flop might allow V to think you reraised with him a pair worse than KK, which in this case you did, and he might bet. But that doesn't mean he's now got a monster. It means he reasonably might think AQ is good. And then he would bet it on the turn.

    When he checks the turn, does he have any pair top pair here? Probably not, I am not going to check the turn after a 4 bet and a check check on the flop if I have something like AQ. So when he checks the turn, why not bet?

    What hands does V possibly have here with near a min 3 bet and a flat of a 4 bet that either beat you, or will call down a large river bet if he even calls the turn bet?

    There's not that many. AJ perhaps, but we block combos of that. It depends on how sticky you see, V. You have a positional and range advantage in this hand and thus I would think you should be playing much more aggressively than you are.
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭
    There are some good video's about fighting back on light 3-bets, on here, as well as other sites. I'd suggestion checking those out, it's a good start.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ignoring the guy who fights back at you with less than premium hands for a moment, I often find at these tables that you're better off raising smaller and playing more poker. Trying to open the table with bigger raises can work sometimes, but often these players are stuck in their patterns. By raising more, you end up playing a kind of break even game against them. You pick up the blinds more often than they do, which probably pays for rake and tips. You make them fold all the hands you want them to call with, and they end up with better hands than you too often when they do call. An alternative is to make smaller raises, back to what would be considered theoretically "correct". It's gotten to be the norm at $1/2 tables where the standard raise is $10-15. This is OK when people play bad, but it does change the dynamic of the game and you end up playing more shortstacked basically. By making raises more like $6, you're putting all streets of poker back in play with full options and allow you to leverage your full skill advantage as the whole deck plays out, with deeper stacks on the turn and river.

    If you're getting too many multiway situations, then you can either play cards that play better multiway (pocket pairs, suited aces, suited broadways), or you can start to probe the raise sizes that get calls from hands you want and get the right number of opponents postflop.
  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 288 ✭✭✭
    Without stack sizes of you and V, it's tough to decide on a course of action.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why are you min raising on a 4 bet?

    A min raise would have been to 40. Anyway, this sizing is not the worst for a linear range, which having JJ here implies.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29
    Yes, a minraise would only be after the flop if he bet $26 and you raised to $52. Making it $80 is actually a bit awkward since it risks more, just about commits you (stack sizes not mentioned), and encourages TT- to fold, and QQ+ to put it in (or possibly worse, just call). Unless you've been gambly enough to make sticking it in with JJ worthwhile.
  • DavidDavid Red Chipper Posts: 59 ✭✭
    My stack was about $200 and he had me covered.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, so $80 is pretty much commital then. Unless you have some read that this guy 3-bet/folds pretty wide and shoves only with KK+.
  • DavidDavid Red Chipper Posts: 59 ✭✭
    I had no read on his three bets, whereas he was going to 3 bet me till it stopped working. My 4 bet was made to persuade him to fold. Even though I won the hand my attempt was unsuccessful.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
    While as persuadeo pointed out your raise wasn't actually a minraise, as evidenced by Jordan it will be perceived to be one by many, and I find these get called very often (preflop).
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A linear range wants to get called.

    Going to 80 as suggested above (the polarized pricing construction) may not really be in the OP's interest or really anyone's interest, as now it is a very poorly sized r/f given stack information; yet if the intention is to stack off, what exactly is villain going with?

    So we can extrapolate just how bad 80 is, on logic alone, and only from one hand, JJ. Of course, against confused opponents anything is possible. On the other hand, if we are the ones asking questions, who is confused?

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