Has PokerSnowie helped your game? How?

As one of the follow-ons from Adam's excellent coaching session, we found several attendees found PokerSnowie useful in advancing their games.

And now they're going to explain how...
Moderation In Moderation

Comments

  • pokerscubedpokerscubed Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    PokerSnowie has helped me improve my game in many ways. There are two specific uses that I can point to which I feel have helped me the most: Confidence and Reviewing my Session.

    FIRST: Confidence before going to play (I call it work) a game. I use the PokerSnowie → Training module to “warm up.” I typically play 200 hand before heading to the casino, with the live advice on. I find that running my training session through the Import → Analysis and reviewing the session in Statistics helps me get my mind in what decision PokerSnowie thinks I should have made, but didn’t. On days where PokerSnowie Statistics → Overview rates me an Expert + then I head to the casino with great confidence in my game. On days when PokerSnowie rates me a Beginner, I usually play another 200 hands to get my mind (and confidence) in the right spot. When I can't seem to play well on PokerSnowie -- I don't play poker, it is that simple.

    SECOND: I leverage the Import Analysis → Statistics after online CASH games to review my session in its entirety. I try to do this immediately after a session. I go over every tab in the level of detail needed to understand and review my play: Overview, Profit and loss, Error details, Balance (I am typically mostly out of balance... work in progress), Playing stats, and Opponents. THEN - the REAL WORK starts… On the Overview → Browse these hands by, I first go through all of the Blunders, then all of the Errors. Yes, every one of them… even after playing 1000+ hands.

    My goal is to use PokerSnowie to review and understand the mathematically correct moves. It is simple to discover things I consistently do wrong (big leaks) and to work on them first. Could I do all this without PokerSnowie? Sure, but using PokerSnowie saves me a lot of time and is more accurate than I would be, even with my trusty TI-84 calc.

    Happy to have a more in depth discussion with anyone who would like specifics on my methods.
  • PapaGiorgioPapaGiorgio Red Chipper Posts: 65 ✭✭
    I started using Pokersnowie a few months ago. I went back-and-forth between pursuing a coach or taking the individual route because I has having difficulty analyzing my own play. I know a coach would likely result in a quicker progression, but I didn't feel like I could put in the time on and off the table to justify the cost of a coach. I looked at Pokersnowie and Advanced Poker Training. Several people on this forum spoke highly of snowie, so I took a chance on it for a year (after my free trial). Overall, I would say that it has filled the role of "coach" by objectively analyzing my play AND offering suggestions for improvement. Yes, I was reviewing my play in PT after every session, but I didn't feel like I was finding specific leaks in my game. In reality, it was my understanding of how best to approach the game that was flawed. Snowie has helped me find some of my leaks. Two specific examples are below.

    1. I was calling too widely, especially when open-raising and facing a 3-bet. I was calling and hoping to hit trips (or in some cases straight or flushes). My perception was that I more than made up for the calls whenever I hit my hand, but according to pokersnowie this play was hugely -EV. After several of these blunders, I drilled into my PT db and realized that I was losing money because I was folding whenever I missed, or I was hitting but rarely getting paid off (and I only remembered those times I got paid off). I was basically missing most flops and not winning much when I connected. Without snowie, I'm sure I still would be calling with most of these speculative hands, especially OOP. I do think open-raising and calling a 3B has it's place in certain games and at specific times, but I don't think it's at the limits I play.

    2. Bet sizing was wrong in several places. This included the drawy vs dry board bet sizing mistakes (watch "cbetting 101"), and value betting on river. I was basically using 2/3 pot as my standard cbet size and rarely changing it. On the river, I was mostly betting pot. This basically explained why my red line trended positive but my money won was flat. I was "following" the advice of "if they are going to call, then bet pot" (something Miller has said in his book as it relates to EV), but I didn't realize that I was basically losing 70% when called, and winning only what's in the pot when they fold. I've started to size many of my value bets down, which hasn't helped my red line (I'm not winning as many pots without showdowns) but has definitely improved my win rate. I'm still working on when I should size down. Consider this another example of misapplication of principles learned from books/videos.

    The final general principle that I'm working on is assessing the ranges that snowie has for my opponents. I notice that PF and continuing ranges are much tighter than what I normally encounter. So, I'm taking the suggested ranges from snowie, transferring them to flopzilla, and expanding them based on my perception of the players. I don't do this for every hand. Rather, I look for hands with blunders or near blunders and try to see how my opinion of villain's range changes the equity calculations. I was already doing this whenever I have a questionable hand, but I now include hands that are marked by snowie. In many cases, these are hands that I felt were played fairly well so I didn't review them prior to snowie.

    I think a key thing to remember with Pokersnowie is that it assumes your opponents play GTO, so GTO play is the optimal strategy. However, I am not playing against perfect opponents, so the suggestions made by snowie might not be optimal. As my game progresses and I find more time to study and play the game, then I think a coach might be a great investment. But until that happens, Pokersnowie is providing me a lower-cost tool that analyzes my game and offers suggestions for improvement.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,021 -
    Hey thanks so much to both of you for taking the time to provide that detailed feedback! Much appreciated.

    Cheers ~ Kat
    Moderation In Moderation
  • pokerscubedpokerscubed Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    I looked at Pokersnowie and Advanced Poker Training.
    I used Advanced Poker Training for one year before purchasing PokerSnowie.

    Advanced Poker Training (APT) was very effective in helping me make better preflop decisions. The reports were very helpful in helping me make the big adjustments. APT for sure got me to a place where I am better than the "good" 1/2 recreational player.

    I view PokerSnowie as a tool to dig deep and make the adjustments that will put me on a path to better than the "good" regular player! Understanding the GTO plays - especially the opening ranges - helps me make decision on when best to exploit players.

    Red Chip Poker is a new addition to my poker weapon closet. PokerSnowie and Red Chip coaches don't always agree.. and I LIKE that. I like being able to find a balance between the machine and the man - that helps me forge my own strategy based on solid information.

  • adam96adam96 Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
    I have heard a lot of good things about PokerSnowie. It is kind of training program which is made for the beginners to learn poker. It has helped many players and improved their games. I am also thinking about to try it once to improve in (GTO) way.
  • Bluffed_AgainBluffed_Again Red Chipper Posts: 90 ✭✭
    edited February 4
    @pokerscubed

    What stakes do you play live and online?

    How much of the training you're doing is pushing you toward GTO play and away from exploitative play?

    If you play (work :) ) lower limit games, do you find that PokerSnowie (or other GTO solvers) push you toward decisions that aren't necessarily correct at lower limits, since the solver expects the villains to be playing at a closer-to-GTO-level than the field actually plays?

    I use PokerSnowie but not at the depth that you do. Thanks for the info and the write up.

    Russ
    PokerSnowie has helped me improve my game in many ways. There are two specific uses that I can point to which I feel have helped me the most: Confidence and Reviewing my Session.

    FIRST: Confidence before going to play (I call it work) a game. I use the PokerSnowie → Training module to “warm up.” I typically play 200 hand before heading to the casino, with the live advice on. I find that running my training session through the Import → Analysis and reviewing the session in Statistics helps me get my mind in what decision PokerSnowie thinks I should have made, but didn’t. On days where PokerSnowie Statistics → Overview rates me an Expert + then I head to the casino with great confidence in my game. On days when PokerSnowie rates me a Beginner, I usually play another 200 hands to get my mind (and confidence) in the right spot. When I can't seem to play well on PokerSnowie -- I don't play poker, it is that simple.

    SECOND: I leverage the Import Analysis → Statistics after online CASH games to review my session in its entirety. I try to do this immediately after a session. I go over every tab in the level of detail needed to understand and review my play: Overview, Profit and loss, Error details, Balance (I am typically mostly out of balance... work in progress), Playing stats, and Opponents. THEN - the REAL WORK starts… On the Overview → Browse these hands by, I first go through all of the Blunders, then all of the Errors. Yes, every one of them… even after playing 1000+ hands.

    My goal is to use PokerSnowie to review and understand the mathematically correct moves. It is simple to discover things I consistently do wrong (big leaks) and to work on them first. Could I do all this without PokerSnowie? Sure, but using PokerSnowie saves me a lot of time and is more accurate than I would be, even with my trusty TI-84 calc.

    Happy to have a more in depth discussion with anyone who would like specifics on my methods.

  • pokerscubedpokerscubed Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    FlopDrop wrote: »
    What stakes do you play live and online?
    At the moment, $1/$2 live and $0.05/$0.10 on-line. I have recently been experimenting with shot-taking and it is going well.
    FlopDrop wrote: »
    How much of the training you're doing is pushing you toward GTO play and away from exploitative play?
    At the table I think through hands via a roll-a-dex of how my different teachers would want me to think about the scenario. For example on any given decision consider what PokerSnowie teaches, what I learned from Ed Miller's "The Course", the math I'm learning from the RCP Core, that SplitSuit would tell me not to be a nit, what Jonathan Little would do in this spot, etc... Meaning, at this point in my skills I'm reflecting on ALL of my studying & training and trying to apply the best technique in the moment.
    FlopDrop wrote: »
    If you play (work :) ) lower limit games, do you find that PokerSnowie (or other GTO solvers) push you toward decisions that aren't necessarily correct at lower limits, since the solver expects the villains to be playing at a closer-to-GTO-level than the field actually plays?
    When I attempted GTO at the micros playing as close to what PokerSnowie wanted, I definitely had more losing sessions. For example, PokerSnowie will frequently recommend a small raise (1/2 pot, basically min-raise) strategy in early position... which I found in the micros means a 7-9-handed flop almost every time. There are times where PokerSnowie recommends small raise in late position which I did find effective - but I was already executing those type raises in an exploitative manner from the HJ/CO against BUT/SB/BB who were too tight. Thinking of this now, I am reflecting on what RCP's Adam mentioned on the January monthly webinar about GTO actually being exploitative.

    To summarize: My strategy is to take in information from a LOT of sources, including PokerSnowie, in an effort to help me make the best decisions given the scenario. I am implementing this best pre-flop; because, obviously, that is the street we all get the most practice!
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Snowie is an extremely rational beast and plays itself as such. It has learned betting efficiencies which validate speculative theories such as defense burden. However, there is no joy or humanness or even fight in it and to expect any live game to play much like it would be an interpretive mistake.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,021 -
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Snowie is an extremely rational beast and plays itself as such. It has learned betting efficiencies which validate speculative theories such as defense burden. However, there is no joy or humanness or even fight in it and to expect any live game to play much like it would be an interpretive mistake.

    The same is true of morning games Center Strip.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Bluffed_AgainBluffed_Again Red Chipper Posts: 90 ✭✭
    Thanks, @pokerscubed , for the perspective.
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    The same is true of morning games Center Strip.

    Not to derail the thread, but the last time I was in Vegas, in December, the regs made the game miserable day and night, just in different ways. Never in my poker career had I heard such berating of rec players, and a few instances of angle shooting endorsed by the dealers.
  • driller1driller1 Red Chipper Posts: 25 ✭✭
    So I just finished my free 10 day trial of PokerSnowie. It isn't very representative of the stakes I play (live 1-2 and 2-5). If you set up a 9 player Snowie training table, you are playing against 8 other GTO players! They are very tight, but they will 3-bet with hands like As4s in position. Snowie does not recommend set mining. If you call with a small pair and hit your set, they will just fold and you rarely win a big pot. On the other hand if you hit your set and they call your big bet on the turn, it is usually set over set. I remember once I had AKo UTG. I raised, then someone in MP 3-bet. The Snowie recommendation was to fold. They often check instead of C-betting, even when their hand improves.

    Anyway, since I play pretty tight pre-flop, I didn't always win, but I always got a good rating!

    I realize that it was a pretty small sample.
  • carl_sebastiancarl_sebastian Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
    I wouldn't put too much fait into pokersnowie, it's obviously not true GTO, just pseudo-GTO and surely not even close to as accurate as actual solvers.
  • magicpigmagicpig Red Chipper Posts: 94 ✭✭
    edited March 21
    driller1 wrote: »
    So I just finished my free 10 day trial of PokerSnowie. It isn't very representative of the stakes I play (live 1-2 and 2-5). If you set up a 9 player Snowie training table, you are playing against 8 other GTO players! They are very tight, but they will 3-bet with hands like As4s in position. Snowie does not recommend set mining. If you call with a small pair and hit your set, they will just fold and you rarely win a big pot. On the other hand if you hit your set and they call your big bet on the turn, it is usually set over set. I remember once I had AKo UTG. I raised, then someone in MP 3-bet. The Snowie recommendation was to fold. They often check instead of C-betting, even when their hand improves.

    Anyway, since I play pretty tight pre-flop, I didn't always win, but I always got a good rating!

    I realize that it was a pretty small sample.

    Snowie is not a GTO program but I get your drift.

    Snowie learns by playing itself over and over and it is still playing itself.

    In situations where Snowie has played itself enough, it's output usually comes very close to GTO.

    So when you play Snowie, you are not playing against GTO.

    Many high limit players have used both Snowie and a solver because Snowie handles multiway situations and pure solvers do not. Also Snowie offers quick evaluations.

    Now that Monker is here, many high limit players use a pure GTO solver, Monker for multiway, and Snowie.

    I am not trying to nitpick and I thought you might enjoy this reply, so I made it.

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