what to do with a good middle pair

ryon341ryon341 Red Chipper Posts: 89 ✭✭
If I am understanding the training correctly, I should be cbetting on the flop with the top of my range for value or bluffing the bottom of my range. I should not be cbetting the middle of my range. I'm not sure I fully understand betting my range yet, but I have a hand I think speaks to my issue:

$.50 / 1.00 table Villain and Hero both fairly deep, about 150 BB.

Villain open from MP with $ 3.00
Hero call from BB with :AH: :TD:

Flop is :KS: :Tc :7H:

I hit a middle pair. In the past, I would have bet this. I was thinking that, I don't want to give free cards so he can turn a weak draw into a big hand. Yes,he can beat me with an overpair or a King, so he may call or raise. However, MP has a lot in his range that won't hit, so most of the time, I should be ahead.

This hand went check / check check/check. and he paired his Queen on the river.

This seems very passive to me and I am losing a lot of hands because of middling draws getting free cards. What am I missing?

More information: Equilab says I have 47% equity and this villain folds to a Cbet over 50% of the time. Doesn't this make a good argument for a cbet?


  • Brews_and_CardsBrews_and_Cards Red Chipper Posts: 101 ✭✭
    We aren't the preflop aggressor, so we can't cbet this flop. A cbet is only done by the preflop aggressor. We can donk, but it's a bad idea. We're OOP and because we flatted pre, we are at a range disadvantage as well. I would check/call this flop. Turn action would depend on the card and V's stats.
  • ryon341ryon341 Red Chipper Posts: 89 ✭✭
    I realize it is not a cbet. My bad habit has been to donk in this position. Because, at the stakes I am playing, I get more than 50% folding to a donk a lot more folding to a double-barrel on the turn.

    Ok, Let's talk about the Turn. It was a :2c. Pretty much a brick. HUD says he's a tight aggressive player, folds to Cbets >50% . Only plays about 16 to 17% of hands. In MP, he probably needs pockets of broadway connectors to call.

    What else should I like for? Should I check the turn or bet into him?

  • Brews_and_CardsBrews_and_Cards Red Chipper Posts: 101 ✭✭
    edited February 4
    Again, we can't cbet. So his "fold to cbet %" isn't really applicable. You could argue it shows V is more of a "fit or fold" player, I suppose.

    As for donking, you're letting them off cheap when they miss the flop. You're not letting them cbet with their air. So sure, you scoop the chips from preflop action, but you're missing out on a lot of value. And when you donk and get raised or called (meaning we're likely behind), you're now losing bigger pots.

    Say you donk for 1/2 pot. V min-raises you. Are you calling? Probably. And now we're in a bloated pot with 2nd pair on a drawy board. Plus, some of the cards we're looking for as outs could help V out more. An A might not help us at all. So we're getting into dangerous waters on this board with a middling pair.
  • ryon341ryon341 Red Chipper Posts: 89 ✭✭
    I just have to break out of my bad habitual tendencies and take these beats when they happen. I understand the reasoning. Thank you.
  • RCP Coach - Fausto ValdezRCP Coach - Fausto Valdez RCP Coach Posts: 836 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5
    @ryon341 most middle pairs will usually fall into the middle of your range if not always. However their not all treated the same and how to navigate will depend on opponents tendencies, board texture wether it favors your range or not and stack sizes, plus as a bonus depending what you block might alter how you navigate this as well. Another is the overall strategy you are going to employ matters on how you would execute with different parts of your range. Last thing I will say is that not all middle pairs need protection and some more than others.

    As a default in this scenario my default will be to XC. Once he doesn't bet we could bet for denial/ protection although this particular hand doesnt need it to much and at a high frequency I will follow it up with another bet on river if he calls turns for multiple reasons thats to much to divulge here.

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