3 bets, 4 bets, 5 bets, etc. in Tournaments

MK12345MK12345 Red Chipper Posts: 15 ✭✭
Hey Guys. I haven't had much experience 3 betting or 4 betting, etc......but I notice on TV (like WSOP tournament events) that raises in tournaments are around 2.2x- 2.5x and in cash closer to 3x. I Understand that.

But, there seem to be a difference between the size of the 3 bets and 4bets in cash games vs. Tournaments? Cash seems pretty straightforward around 3x the previous raise. But in tournaments the amount that gets re-raised is on a smaller scale and that it seems to get smaller than the average 2.5x raises. Like raise to 300 would get 3bet to 700....700 would get 4bet to 1200...and so on and so forth.

Why is that?

Comments

  • Zero CoolZero Cool Red Chipper Posts: 270 ✭✭✭
    It has to do with stack depth. In a cash game you typically have between 100-200bb but in a tournament you will usually have less then 50bb. This allows you to put pressure on your opponents without having to size your bets as large, especially since your chips represent your tournament life and you cant just reload like you can in a cash game.
  • MK12345MK12345 Red Chipper Posts: 15 ✭✭
    That makes total sense ... what size should ur 3bet or 4bet look like (in terms of X blinds)?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,919 -
    edited February 6
    MK12345 wrote: »
    That makes total sense ... what size should ur 3bet or 4bet look like (in terms of X blinds)?

    I don't think there's a cookie-cutter answer for this one, partly because there's kind of a continuum with decreasing stack depth, plus another variable is the size of the open. And at some point there's a phase transition where your 3b or 4b goes from being small to being a shove. And the presence of antes potentially makes a difference.

    I think a better approach to the problem is to ask what your 3b is trying to achieve, what price it is giving the OR, and go from there.
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  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 429 ✭✭✭
    I also think you don't want to 3-bet so large that you can call ATC (incl. your bluffs) to a 4-bet shove?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,919 -
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    I also think you don't want to 3-bet so large that you can call ATC (incl. your bluffs) to a 4-bet shove?

    Aha, that's a subtle one. Back when I was TheGameKitten it was generally acknowledged that if you 3bet and the 4bet-shove gave you 2:1 or better then you were priced in to call. So this led to a lot of fiddling around with sizing depending on whether you were trying to induce the 4b-shove, and if not whether 3b-shoving was efficient blah blah. So anyway, some intelligent biscuit - probably Eric Haber - started reversing this; making a 3bet-shove that looked committing basically as a semi-bluff.

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