Slowplaying Aces preflop

EurocratEurocrat Red Chipper Posts: 46 ✭✭
Hi everyone,

here's a hand that I recently played on Pokerstars NL10, in which I choose to just call AA rather than 3bet, which then obviously creates a situation which I find pretty hard to handle:

Table Information
Seat: 1 Hero ($10.41)
Seat: 2 Player 2 ($13.93) Dealer
Seat: 3 Player 3 ($10) Small Blind
Seat: 4 Player 4 ($17.32) Big Blind
Seat: 5 Player 5 ($12.41)
Seat: 6 Player 6 ($10.1)
Dealt to Hero
AH.pngAD.png

Preflop (Pot:0.15)
Player 5 FOLD
Player 6 RAISE $0.3
Hero CALL $0.3
Player 2 CALL $0.3
Player 3 FOLD
Player 4 CALL $0.2

Flop(Pot: $1.25)
7C.png7D.png9C.png

Player 4 CHECK
Player 6 BET $0.7
Hero CALL $0.7
Player 2 FOLD
Player 4 FOLD

Turn(Pot: $2.65)
7C.png7D.png9C.png9D.png

Player 6 CHECK
Hero BET $1.8
Player 6 CALL $1.8

River(Pot: $6.25)
7C.png7D.png9C.png9D.png8H.png

Player 6 CHECK
Hero ALL-IN
Player 6 FOLD
Hero RETURN $7.61
Showdown:
Hero MUCKS

Hero wins the pot: $13.86

At the time of the hand, the BU and BB both frequently 3bet - I would define BU as a borderline LAG with something like 30/25 and a 15% 3bet stat and BB as a maniac with 45/25 and a 35% 3bet stat. I had the impression that just calling here could induce either of the two to 3bet here, leaving me in a quite profitable spot. My plan does not work out, obviously, so I'm in a situation that is quite uncomfortable. Some questions that I have:
-I later made the math that, if I would trust all the stats, there is a roughly 50% chance that somebody would 3bet (including the SB). It should be noted though that on all players behind me, I only had ~100 hands. What do people think? Is this a spot where you would consider to just call?
-On the flop we're a 4way with a board that, in my view, largely favours the calling ranges. The cbet of HJ is a quite strong sign in my view and there is practically no information yet on how the other 2 like this flop, so I elect to just call and see what happens. Should I raise in this spot?
-On the turn, the situation is much better for me and I get pretty confident I have the best hand now - I think V mainly has OP and draws in his range now. One thing I'm wondering now if I should increase my bet sizing to arrive on the R with a better stack size.
-When I arrive on the river, I feel quite comfortable thinking that my hand is well disguised and I believed that worse OP would call me here. Looking back now I'm less positive about that, considern that the board is really awkward for an open raiser.

Looking forward to hear what people think!

Cheers



Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    Someone turned his AA into a pure bluff and still think he is value betting river ?
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭✭
    Eurocrat wrote: »
    I later made the math that, if I would trust all the stats, there is a roughly 50% chance that somebody would 3bet (including the SB).

    I don't think this is true in practice or theory - 3B AA 100% of the time for the rest of your poker career you will make more money!
  • bmat66bmat66 Red Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
    I agree with kenaces. You should have 3bet preflop. By the time you get to the turn there are two pairs on the board, which I never like when holding a pocket pair. I ran into a similar issue today, was going to post in my own thread but for some reason I do not have the option to yet, even though I posted on the into earlier. Here is my hand:

    I was playing a freeroll MTT with a $250 dollar prize pool. We were in the early stages of the tournament (blinds 100 / 200 no ante yet) and I was the chip leader at my table with 13,846 chips. The villain in this hand had the second most chips at our table with 12,135.
    Pre: Action folds around to me in the cut with AdAs, I min open for 400. Villain calls the button and the blinds fold.

    Flop ($1280): Jh5h6s
    I check, villain bets 640, I XR 1280, and villain calls.

    Turn ($3840): 2h
    I bet 1920 and am called.

    River ($7680):
    I bet 1920 and am called. I lose and go on tilt.

    First off, I know I played this hand incredibly poorly. Here are my thoughts on it, please let me know what you guys think.
    To begin with, I min bet to get some action. There had been other hands before this one I opened even at just 3x BB that bought the pot, and I wanted additional value from a table that overall seemed to be playing tight. In this particular case I got exactly one caller which is great so I think it worked out fine.
    On the flop, I probably should have c-bet, but I knew this opponent was aggressive and was hoping to let him take the lead on a fairly dry flop and hang himself. I’d like to point out that I had not won a hand against him up to this point (he was one of the newer players added to the table after someone busted) but he had won a couple hands on this table since joining, one against me that did not get to showdown.
    As I expected, he bets after I check and then I go for the XR, expecting a call. This may have been the first mistake. On the flop, there is a very, very small chance he has a hand better than mine, should I have just flat called? Or if I was going to XR should I have at least gone for 3x his bet size to take it down?
    The turn is where I think I really begin to mess up. Now with 3 hearts on the board there is a real chance I am no longer ahead, so I decide to turn my hand into a bluff. I only bet half pot however, giving villain only 25% needed equity to continue. Analyzing this hand in retrospect, I assign villain to starting range: JJ-44, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q4s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, AQo-A3o, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+ (capped because he is aggressive and I would have expected a 3 bet from the top hands). After the turn, this range only has 20% equity against my hand, yet the villain continued.
    By the river, I basically knew I was done for. The only reason I bet is because I hadn’t seen any of villains hands showdown and wanted to know what he was playing with. Possibly bigger XR on the flop, or a bigger bluff on the turn would have taken down the hand.
    What are your guys thoughts on this hand or how would you have played it differently?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,854 -
    edited February 2019
    Pre: At this stack depth open 2.5-3x.
    Flop: I'm not sure what the min check-raise is trying to achieve. It's not the best board for your hand, so any check-raise seems peculiar.
    Turn: I don't regard a lead here as turning your hand into a bluff. There are plenty of hands from which you can get value. The fact V's assigned starting range only has 20% equity against your hand is largely irrelevant. First you need to greatly modify that range based on the flop action, then recognize that where he is within that range will determine his continuance range after you bet the turn.
    River: There are many lines which will allow you to see V's hand including check-check. That said, I don't hate a small bet on the end as a bet-fold.

    Why on earth did you go on tilt? It's a completely typical situation.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • bmat66bmat66 Red Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
    Hi Kat, thanks for the quick response. A couple clarifications: I typed this out rather quickly last night and realize a bit of information is missing. The villain ended up showing QhJc; the river card was 6h.
    To answer your question, I suppose the XR was stupid. If I could redo the first two bets I would have bet 2.5x pre (and if it buys the pot so be it) and c-bet for half to 2/3 pot for value, since I believe I will be ahead almost always on that flop. You say this flop is not best for my hand, I’m assuming because of the two hearts correct?
    Once the 3rd heart comes down on the turn, would you have check/folded? And against this particular opponent, based on the limited information I had on him, I believe if I would have checked the river he would have value bet more than I was willing to pay either on the turn, river, or likely both. I definitely need to work more on hand reading, but based on the fact he was calling my raises and bets, top pair with a heart in the hand definitely seemed like the worst hand he could possibly have.
    And yes I shouldn’t have tilted, although losing a large chunk of my stack overplaying pocket pairs seems to be a leak I need to plug.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,854 -
    bmat66 wrote: »
    You say this flop is not best for my hand, I’m assuming because of the two hearts correct?
    Once the 3rd heart comes down on the turn, would you have check/folded? And against this particular opponent, based on the limited information I had on him, I believe if I would have checked the river he would have value bet more than I was willing to pay either on the turn, river, or likely both. I definitely need to work more on hand reading, but based on the fact he was calling my raises and bets, top pair with a heart in the hand definitely seemed like the worst hand he could possibly have.

    Not the two hearts, no. Since you're both in LP I guess it's fairly range neutral, but there's a lot of two pair/pair+draw stuff V can have here.

    I would probably bet the turn for value, and as mentioned I think bet-fold on the river is okay.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • EurocratEurocrat Red Chipper Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited February 2019
    Hi everyone, thanks for the comments and also for the comment disguised as a question, Red.

    I still do believe there can be spots where it can make sense to just flat call aces, but for one I think I should be certain to have position postflop (i.e., being on the button), and for two I should be certain to know the right play in such a scenario as I found myself in this hand. Indeed, I can see how I probably overplayed river and maybe turn because on the spot I was overvaluing the fact that my pocket cards were disguised. I assume I had some kind of entitlement tilt where I was fearing to get folds if I would just do the regular 3bet. Points are taken.

    @bat66: I'm not an expert in tournament poker (or as it is, playing 60bb deep), but I can point out that the guy from Smart Poker Study is talking about how to play overpairs on coordinated boards which seems very applicable to your situation in one of his latest podcast episodes (don't know if the guy is frowned upon in this forum, though).
  • GTOLife2020GTOLife2020 Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 872 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    Calling pre is almost never fine...this was actually a little borderline, though. 3bet .75 - .85 instead.

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