JJ with an OESD and 2nd nut flush draw on turn

Daniel JDaniel J Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
This is at a 1/2 no limit live cash game:

The UTG and the UTG +2 limp and the HJ raises to $15 with about a $350 stack size remaining (effective) and I reraise to $50 with JdJh to isolate from the CO. The HJ calls. I didn't at the time have a lot of info regarding the villain since none of his hands went to showdown except one that he quickly mucked since he was bluffing.

Flop with $102 in the pot (after 5 dollar rake)

Having the initiative, a board texture that favors me, and a 2nd nut flush draw to boot, I bet 50 dollars. He raises me to 150.

I considered which hands might raise me on the flop and called the 3bet preflop. In my 1/2 game a three bet call would be rather tight so I put him on a raising range of 77, KQ, QQ+, AQ+, (with Ad for AQ) (however I think that the number of combos of KK+ could be reduced since some of the time KK would have been 4 bet and the combos of 77 and KQ might not be reduced that much since there aren't a lot of made flushes I should have on the flop since the Kd and Qd are on the board).

Since a diamond on the turn would be good against the KQ, 77, KK, QQ, AA (with no Ad), and AK (with no Ad), I thought that I would have the correct implied odds if a diamond comes on the turn to then stack off. Also I think that it is highly unlikely that he would have flopped a flush (maybe AdTd?) since the KQJ of diamonds are accounted for and we 3-bet preflop, I felt that a call was the right move here.

I call and the turn is the Tc. Pot is now $402.
He goes all in for his remaining $165

Considering the range of hands I beat, the fact that now an A, 9, J, or diamond can give me the winning hand, and the fact that I just need about 22.5% equity here I make the call.

How was the 3 bet sizing?
Should I have not C-Bet the flop and instead check-called or check-folded?
How was the c-bet sizing?
Should I have folded to the raise on the flop?
Should I have called the all in on the turn?
Are their any important considerations that I did not take into account?
Since I'm kind of new to sharing hand histories and writing hands down, is there any vital information that I am missing?

I know that I have a lot to learn so please be gentle with your criticisms. Thank you.


  • Paul_KPaul_K DFWRed Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭✭
    Pre flop sizing is good.

    You are in position, correct? Your postflop hand history, then your wrap up questions make it seem as tho you're oop. Either case, I can't see a viable reason for cbetting.

    This is a range neutral board, it hits both of you. He has all available combos of QQ/KQ/AK/AQ/AdTd.... much less likely AA/KK/77. most LL players will over limp with these med. pairs and 4bet w/AA/KK, esp. oop. So the board is meh for your range and absolute disaster for your actual holding.

    The guy just check/raised your flop cbet in a 3bet pot and has made a commitment for his stack. You have to just assume LL unknowns are not bluffing unless you have good reason to believe otherwise. Here, you don't.
  • Paul_KPaul_K DFWRed Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭✭
    I should amend and say the board is a disaster when you get check/raised. I would expect this to be AdKx/AdQx/QQ. Possibly KQ does this as it blocks your sets and skews you towards 1 pair hands. Really tough to continue here on the flop as you have to expect the rest of it going in on the turn.

    Facing heavy action, the 2nd nut flush on a 4 flush board, especially with the hidden A, is one of the biggest bankroll busters you will see in this game.
  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 211 ✭✭✭
    Have to agree with Paul on this one. Playing your hand like this will cost you a lot of money in the long run.

    Unless there are extenuating circumstances, most players will call 3bets out of position like this with a range that's heavily weighted with broadway cards, so stabbing at a flop with two of them out there pretty ambitious, especially given how enthusiastically your opponent will want to check jam on you with a pair + :AD:. The fact that they only c/r'd you 3x should really have set your alarm bells ringing. To my mind, the most likely scenarios here on the flop are either your pair is smaller than theirs and so is your flush draw, or they flopped hard and now all you have is flush draw that can't handle a repeat.

    In the future, just check the flop back and go from there.
  • Daniel JDaniel J Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Appreciate all of your input guys. Was pretty surprised when he tabled Ad8d but that is 1/2 for you.

    I kept playing the guy with my remaining money and shoved my last 77 dollars into a 90 dollar pot with TPTK (I 3bet him preflop since I knew he called wide). Board was Q86r, he thought and called, turn 8, river A and he flipped over 8c4c. It was at that point I realized how terrible of a player he was. I can't wait to bet back into the ring with him!
  • Phil EbbsPhil Ebbs Red Chipper Posts: 251 ✭✭✭
    edited February 28
    I frankly completely disagree with the ranges given by other posters, but I must admit I don't play 1/2 a lot, so maybe my perception is way off.
    HJ should have almost zero combos of QQ-AA,AK in his range.

    -I would also cbet this board (it absolutely crushes your range), but your cbetting is probably too large if you are cbetting your entire range.
    -Flop X-raise is kind of gross, since your diamond outs are probably not good like 50% of the time. Against a balanced opponent, you probably have to call here, but I think it's very close. My guess is, though, 1/2 players are not very balanced, and this is probably a losing call against a general 1/2 player.
    -I actually think you can fold the river. You just have so many AdK, AdQ and nut flushes that I don't think you need to be calling for a draw that might not even be good. Add to that that I think very few 1/2 players are bluffing here, and you block the bluffs (AdJx) that he should be X-raising here, and I think you can fold.

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