Hand Review

Steve MSteve M Red Chipper Posts: 29 ✭✭
Been a while since I've posted but not due to lack of playing. Haven't had many notable hands to review (credit to this place since I'm playing much more solid thanks to the forum & avoiding sticky situations) but I've come into this spot a few times & I'm a bit lost as to what to do. I'm hesitant to post it because I think the answer is to do some due diligence away from the table & look at real calculations but I have not embraced that side of the game yet.

Game = $1/$2 - 8 Players

Getting close to the end of the night. Around 3 AM.

Hero = Been playing around 6 hours at this point. Down around $200 but Villain wouldn't know this as he is relatively new to the table. I've capped off twice after getting less than $200 from initial buy-in of $300 so my stack at this point is around $350.

Villain = New to the table. Came from a broke table with 2 or 3 other players who he was being friendly with, talking about hands from their other table, etc. He bought in for about $80 & lost it, then re-bought for another $80 & doubled up & now sits on about $200.

Hero = :6h :7h

UTG (Hero) = Calls $2

The table was tight pre-flop with a lot of limped pots seeing a flop. Normally this is a fold or on a tight table, a raise, but I felt a lot of the players were protecting their winnings and were hesitant to put their stacks in without the nuts so felt I would have a little bit more of an edge postflop.

3 Folds

CO (Villain) = Raises $15

Button & SB Fold

BB = Calls $13
Hero = Calls $13

Pretty loose call on my part but the BB had a big stack & the OR had about $180+ behind so I felt I had enough implied odds to make the call. (In reality, I was stuck, it was the end of the night & I was feeling gambly).

Flop = $45

:Kc :8h :4h

BB = Checks
Hero = Checks
Villain = Bets $25
BB = Folds

Hero = ???

I'm not sure what do to here because I feel like I can't balance out a call or a check-raise with any real value hands. I'm thinking a call or a CR would turn my hand face up as a draw. If I check-raise, I have so very few value hands to balance out bluffs or draws. My value hands here would be pocket 4's & maybe half the pocket 8's since I'm open raising 8's on this table about half the time. I wouldn't have any 2 pairs & would never limp-call with pocket kings. A check-raise screams a draw & since the OR has range advantage, I really don't expect to get any folds from 99+ or any K & probably not any A highs with the Ace of Hearts. I did take note that I don't block any higher flush draws & that the King of Hearts wasn't out there so I felt a CR would have very little Fold Equity. I didn't want to face a jam over my CR either & stacks were too deep for me to CR jam.

If I call & hit hearts, it's going to be tough to get paid since, again, I feel my hand would be face-up. Obviously, an off-suit 5 wold be ideal but I can't bank on that so can't say for sure calling is best either.

I considered leading as an option but same issue as a CR. I didn't want to get blown off of my equity.

What makes the most sense here?

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,790 -
    Interesting how these tricky spots tend to start with a limp-call.

    Is anything not involving a fold really that bad?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Phil EbbsPhil Ebbs Red Chipper Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    Your thought process on the flop about how you don't really have value hands is remarkably lucid and far beyond most low stakes players. Realizations of range problems like this are the first baby steps to moving out of low stakes poker.
    This is a textbook example of why having an unbalanced limping range sucks, and this is also why having a comprehensive strategy for your entire range is critical.

    FWIW, opening this hand UTG 8-way is questionable.

    Regardless, you can't have worse than 40% equity here, so as-played, both calling and raising are probably fine.

    Take heart, though. According to RCPers like @MichaelB , you may have made a losing play, but it might not really be losing, since the villain may pay dividends in hands to come. How can we measure this? Frankly, I have no idea, but maybe he can give some pointers =)
    (https://forum.redchippoker.com/discussion/12102/i-open-limp-from-utg-and-utg-1-change-my-mind#latest)

  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 155 ✭✭
    @Phil Ebbs Haha! Well, in my defence, 67s is not in my limping range utg. That's a standard raise. Second to that, unlike Steve I definitely could have a couple of value hands in my C/R range on this flop, including K8s and K4s and 44. Limp calling 67s, which is a genuine holding, and then either stacking off or winning with a flush doesn't qualify for the voodoo magic I was talking about. Break a man's AK with straight flush daw and he might grumble, but break his AK with K4 and he'll be out for blood.

    @SteveM You're exactly right, your limp call has left your range perceivably exposed, but that doesn't mean you can't use that to your advantage. I agree that a check raise here screams draw, so if you're not happy just rolling the equity dice and getting it in here or on the turn, you could elect for a call to see what the turn brings. I don't know why you think you don't have any bluff catchers in your range here. People often limp hands like 89 or KTo. But anyway, if you don't want to go for the aforementioned ship and pray, I'd be looking for turn cards favourable to my range that that I can set up a check raise play with either then or on the river. A favourable runout could make it very difficult for him to call if you get aggressive on the turn and river.
  • Steve MSteve M Red Chipper Posts: 29 ✭✭
    I know that this mess all started with an UTG limp from me with a speculative hand and the easiest solution is to fold or raise if I'm going to play it. Raising keeps my range wider so it's easier to represent top hands.

    Looking at this from a broader perspective, I think where I have been struggling recently is situations where I have decent equity in the hand but what I feel is no fold equity (Foreshadowing to my next post!). More specifically, how do I balance out calls with check-raises where I don't want to be jammed on and forced to fold out my equity.
  • Phil EbbsPhil Ebbs Red Chipper Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    Steve M wrote: »
    I know that this mess all started with an UTG limp from me with a speculative hand and the easiest solution is to fold or raise if I'm going to play it. Raising keeps my range wider so it's easier to represent top hands.

    Looking at this from a broader perspective, I think where I have been struggling recently is situations where I have decent equity in the hand but what I feel is no fold equity (Foreshadowing to my next post!). More specifically, how do I balance out calls with check-raises where I don't want to be jammed on and forced to fold out my equity.

    If by "no fold equity", you mean that an observant opponent knows you don't have the nuts very often, then this is a good question. A way that I try to combat this is to play my entire range very passive. So, even if I do flop a set on a board that favors my opponent, I play it passively so that he doesn't know if I am drawing or trapping. I don't like bluffing on boards where I can't rep the nuts.

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